"but to prevent street fights breaking out between students of opposing martial arts groups."
-Okay, so we are actually living out the plot of a martial arts move now. This year keeps getting weirder and weirder. The question I'm left with is: Which one?
edit: And now I'm going to have Kung Fu Fighting by Carl Douglas stuck in my head the rest of the day.
Which dicastery funds papal security and travel? Worldhopping trips like this can’t be cheap for the Vatican in a time when money seems to be tight (when it’s not in shopping bags in an office).
It’s usually provided by the hosting country for the most part. The Holy See will obviously maintain a small team of personal body guards, but the rest of the security is provided by local law enforcement for public events and the Host’s equivalent of the secret service will provide additional personal protection for the visiting Head of State at the host’s expense. Standard Vienna convention practice.
Dunno about Papua New Guinea and Timor Leste but in Singapore we've been taking up an extra collection once a month for the last few months to fund this. Probably also getting rich people to do more donations
That too.. hosting dioceses usually stump up a fair bit for hosting the Pope including engaging state security cooperation. PNG and Timor Leste would do their own fundraising.
Go read the linked itinerary… it’s a pretty standard Papal pastoral visit. He’ll be presiding at Mass in every country, meeting with his local Jesuit brothers, young people, missionaries, seminarians, priests and catechists. Also missionary nuns, schools etc. He’ll also make customary visits to his hosting heads of state, and address the civil and diplomatic corps. It’s the exact same template that’s every Pope since Paul VI has used.
Pray tell why you accuse Francis of not being ‘spiritual’ enough when he simply follows the tradition of his predecessors and diplomatic convention (that exists thanks to the Holy See’s institutional memory and influence)?
And… those very large Stadium Masses scheduled? Security NIGHTMARE for the Hosts and an expensive indulgence granted to no other president or prime minister. No other Head of State brings hundreds of thousands out to worship God. No other head of state brings hundreds of thousands out for even a speech… not even Taylor Swift can touch a Papal Mass… just saying.
I am *begging* you to write an explainer, or maybe cover on a bonus episode: A. Why there are opposing martial arts street fighters in East Timor; B. How common are the fights; C. How many of these groups there are; D. How large are these fights that *the government is worried about them*?
There seems to be a very fine line between ‘martial arts groups’ and ‘gangs’ in the conventional usage. There were some serious street fights all over Dilli that the Police took much too long to get under control. Timor Leste is a small and poor country that has poor youth unemployment and education rates, even if it’s slowly improving. It’s a pretty universal story about what happens to young men who can’t find decent work, form families and grow up… they join gangs/marital arts groups and take it out on each other in a dysfunctional proxy for work and family formation.
I... Y'know, that makes a lot more sense. When I read "martial arts gangs" I was genuinely thinking something in the way of warring dojos from Karate Kid, rather than "street gangs who do martial arts". I appreciate it, KP!
Martial arts were popularized in Timor Leste under Indonesia, which also co-opted some clubs as anti-independence militias. Other clubs were pro-independence.
When TL gained independence many of these groups became affiliated with political elites or other interests, or involved in criminal activity.
They have periodically been involved in violence, including in response to violent incidences in remote Indonesia. The government has previously blamed the clubs for instigating and exacerbating violence and banned them in 2011 and 2013. The latest ban on all training was imposed in May.
The next Pope will do what the Holy Spirit calls him to do and it probably won’t be that.
There are plenty of good Jesuits doing good work and laying their lives down for their flocks. they’re too busy for Twitter.
I am somewhat sympathetic to the four suggestions but not to the parenthetical swipe at "all" SJ's.
Well, not *all* Jesuits are Jesuitical 🙂
"but to prevent street fights breaking out between students of opposing martial arts groups."
-Okay, so we are actually living out the plot of a martial arts move now. This year keeps getting weirder and weirder. The question I'm left with is: Which one?
edit: And now I'm going to have Kung Fu Fighting by Carl Douglas stuck in my head the rest of the day.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmfudW7rbG0
I did wonder too...
Need to watch the last season of Cobra Kai now.
Clearly it’s big trouble in little china
Which dicastery funds papal security and travel? Worldhopping trips like this can’t be cheap for the Vatican in a time when money seems to be tight (when it’s not in shopping bags in an office).
It’s usually provided by the hosting country for the most part. The Holy See will obviously maintain a small team of personal body guards, but the rest of the security is provided by local law enforcement for public events and the Host’s equivalent of the secret service will provide additional personal protection for the visiting Head of State at the host’s expense. Standard Vienna convention practice.
Dunno about Papua New Guinea and Timor Leste but in Singapore we've been taking up an extra collection once a month for the last few months to fund this. Probably also getting rich people to do more donations
That too.. hosting dioceses usually stump up a fair bit for hosting the Pope including engaging state security cooperation. PNG and Timor Leste would do their own fundraising.
A pope who's fundamentally a politician. The Church needs popes focused far more on things spiritual and not at all on secular celebrity.
Go read the linked itinerary… it’s a pretty standard Papal pastoral visit. He’ll be presiding at Mass in every country, meeting with his local Jesuit brothers, young people, missionaries, seminarians, priests and catechists. Also missionary nuns, schools etc. He’ll also make customary visits to his hosting heads of state, and address the civil and diplomatic corps. It’s the exact same template that’s every Pope since Paul VI has used.
Pray tell why you accuse Francis of not being ‘spiritual’ enough when he simply follows the tradition of his predecessors and diplomatic convention (that exists thanks to the Holy See’s institutional memory and influence)?
And… those very large Stadium Masses scheduled? Security NIGHTMARE for the Hosts and an expensive indulgence granted to no other president or prime minister. No other Head of State brings hundreds of thousands out to worship God. No other head of state brings hundreds of thousands out for even a speech… not even Taylor Swift can touch a Papal Mass… just saying.
Tbh she can because in Singapore's case the venue is the same. But going for Papal mass is free, Taylor Swift is a few hundred bucks.
Even if Taylor Swift put on a free concert… I’d rather go to a papal mass but I’m just weird like that.
I am *begging* you to write an explainer, or maybe cover on a bonus episode: A. Why there are opposing martial arts street fighters in East Timor; B. How common are the fights; C. How many of these groups there are; D. How large are these fights that *the government is worried about them*?
Noted! According to this report, even Vatican diplomats have weighed in:
https://www.asia-pacific-solidarity.net/news/2023-11-20/vatican-official-bats-martial-arts-groups-timor-leste.html
There seems to be a very fine line between ‘martial arts groups’ and ‘gangs’ in the conventional usage. There were some serious street fights all over Dilli that the Police took much too long to get under control. Timor Leste is a small and poor country that has poor youth unemployment and education rates, even if it’s slowly improving. It’s a pretty universal story about what happens to young men who can’t find decent work, form families and grow up… they join gangs/marital arts groups and take it out on each other in a dysfunctional proxy for work and family formation.
I... Y'know, that makes a lot more sense. When I read "martial arts gangs" I was genuinely thinking something in the way of warring dojos from Karate Kid, rather than "street gangs who do martial arts". I appreciate it, KP!
Martial arts were popularized in Timor Leste under Indonesia, which also co-opted some clubs as anti-independence militias. Other clubs were pro-independence.
When TL gained independence many of these groups became affiliated with political elites or other interests, or involved in criminal activity.
They have periodically been involved in violence, including in response to violent incidences in remote Indonesia. The government has previously blamed the clubs for instigating and exacerbating violence and banned them in 2011 and 2013. The latest ban on all training was imposed in May.