Why is the IVE still allowed to exist after all these issues and seeming rejection of discipline from Rome? What does it take for Rome to shut down a religious order? It would seem to me that having a known abuser as the founder of an order — who abused members of his own order — would be enough to shut it down (so I also think the Legio…
Why is the IVE still allowed to exist after all these issues and seeming rejection of discipline from Rome? What does it take for Rome to shut down a religious order? It would seem to me that having a known abuser as the founder of an order — who abused members of his own order — would be enough to shut it down (so I also think the Legion of Christ should have been shut down altogether after Maciel’s crimes came to light).
I would say the problem is that founders like that tend to write rules and organize communities so that they effectively groom the members for him. Even if you remove the founder, the same rules and structures remain. And while an abuser will think of how to set things up for that purpose, the people who try to clean it up probably don't have the capacity to think of it.
I can only defend the Legionaries of Christ here. I had similar worries when my kids were enrolled in a Catholic grade school under the spiritual guidance of the Legionaries 10 years ago. I can only thank God for the Legionary priests, the best priests as a group I have ever met. Hardworking, compassionate, always available, never complaining, always joyful in their vocation. They run a minor seminary in Indiana where they tell any boys interested in signing up about the fact that their founder was abusive and that is the only time he is even mentioned by them (they ask the boys to pray for a saint to come out of the Legion since their founder was so sinful). No photos or writings of Maciel are seen anywhere. I know closely many priests (diocesan, Jesuit, Franciscan, Opus Dei, Cistercians, Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, Discalced Carmelite) who are holy and amazing, but I have also met bad priests from some of those and other orders. I have now met about 15 Legionary priests and they are all holy and excellent. The profound good influence they have had on my 5 kids growing up causes me to have to defend them, though my wife and I are Opus Dei cooperators who attend a Cistercian parish, so we do not belong to their lay organization.
It would be good to specify what you mean by "grooming," especially since you mention a consecrated woman that may have been contacting your daughter without authorization from her superiors.
According to a Our Sunday Visitor article from 2022, 28 priests from the Legionaries of Christ had committed sexual abuse out of 1,408 priests ordained since the founding of the Legionaries in 1941. As in the case of diocesan priest abuse, 98-99% of priests should not be put into the same category as the 1%-2% of perverted priests who abused children and adults. The only proof you give of any wrongdoing is your son being given a holy card of Maciel and Pope John Paul II before the Legionaries were reformed 14 years ago, hardly an abuse.
The grade schools the Legionaries run are unique in that they have a Legionary priest chaplain in the school every day working with kids and staff and providing great spiritual support for everyone. Other schools, especially diocesan schools, often have a priest only show up for the once a week school Mass.
All I know is my son and all the boys interested in entering the Legionary minor seminary were told about Maciel as having been an evil person. Yet my son had no problem entering that boarding school, since he had met many priests in his life and saw how the Legionary priests combined a real manliness with love and humility. When he comes back home to visit, he always remarks how humble and simple the Legionary priests are, not owning anything on their own except the crucifix they are given at ordination that they are allowed to be buried with when they die.
Thank you for your reply. Yes, I am also grateful to Pope Benedict XVI for exposing Maciel and purifying the Legionaries. I was fully supportive of having the Legion disbanded until I actually met Legionary priests, and I changed my mind completely. And I have met priests (diocesan) who turned out to be abusers: a very scary situation especially when one has kids.
I can imagine the unhealthiness of an order that would celebrate the birthday of their founder as a feast day. However, I have also had many friends or acquaintances from different religious orders and lay associations and they all tend to put their founders on a pedestal. If you make a light criticism of that founder, even if as innocuous as "I don't agree with that one phrase he said in one of his writings," they look with horror at you as if you were the Antichrist. That is why I am not a member of any lay organization associated with any religious order, because I find it fair to criticize even saints, as only the Blessed Mother was perfect. The Legion had that disease and was forced to relinquish it, which made it a lot better. I can only say that the current Legion seems to have strong leadership and strong priests.
I would not mind you letting me know about what happened, but I don't want to reveal my personal contact information on this website. There are some people working for nefarious organizations that monitor the Pillar articles. At first I was registered under my full name until some guy wrote in response to one of my comments falsely implying that I hate homosexuals and want them imprisoned just because I said homosexual acts were sinful.
Thank you, Thomas - I will just say that disagreeing with a founder who is a saint or on the way to sainthood is different than having a founder with no moral scruples, reprehensible, moesting his own seminarians.
However, obedience to superiors - in this case, the Pope and appropriate Vatican offices is key, and neither order has been suppressed, and time will tell - the real perspective will come in 100 years or so. It sounds like you do not need me to contact you, which is fine.
Why is the IVE still allowed to exist after all these issues and seeming rejection of discipline from Rome? What does it take for Rome to shut down a religious order? It would seem to me that having a known abuser as the founder of an order — who abused members of his own order — would be enough to shut it down (so I also think the Legion of Christ should have been shut down altogether after Maciel’s crimes came to light).
I agree completely. How can you have a religious order with such a founder? If they're so gravely sinful, what sort of charism are they imparting?
I would say the problem is that founders like that tend to write rules and organize communities so that they effectively groom the members for him. Even if you remove the founder, the same rules and structures remain. And while an abuser will think of how to set things up for that purpose, the people who try to clean it up probably don't have the capacity to think of it.
I can only defend the Legionaries of Christ here. I had similar worries when my kids were enrolled in a Catholic grade school under the spiritual guidance of the Legionaries 10 years ago. I can only thank God for the Legionary priests, the best priests as a group I have ever met. Hardworking, compassionate, always available, never complaining, always joyful in their vocation. They run a minor seminary in Indiana where they tell any boys interested in signing up about the fact that their founder was abusive and that is the only time he is even mentioned by them (they ask the boys to pray for a saint to come out of the Legion since their founder was so sinful). No photos or writings of Maciel are seen anywhere. I know closely many priests (diocesan, Jesuit, Franciscan, Opus Dei, Cistercians, Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter, Discalced Carmelite) who are holy and amazing, but I have also met bad priests from some of those and other orders. I have now met about 15 Legionary priests and they are all holy and excellent. The profound good influence they have had on my 5 kids growing up causes me to have to defend them, though my wife and I are Opus Dei cooperators who attend a Cistercian parish, so we do not belong to their lay organization.
It would be good to specify what you mean by "grooming," especially since you mention a consecrated woman that may have been contacting your daughter without authorization from her superiors.
According to a Our Sunday Visitor article from 2022, 28 priests from the Legionaries of Christ had committed sexual abuse out of 1,408 priests ordained since the founding of the Legionaries in 1941. As in the case of diocesan priest abuse, 98-99% of priests should not be put into the same category as the 1%-2% of perverted priests who abused children and adults. The only proof you give of any wrongdoing is your son being given a holy card of Maciel and Pope John Paul II before the Legionaries were reformed 14 years ago, hardly an abuse.
The grade schools the Legionaries run are unique in that they have a Legionary priest chaplain in the school every day working with kids and staff and providing great spiritual support for everyone. Other schools, especially diocesan schools, often have a priest only show up for the once a week school Mass.
All I know is my son and all the boys interested in entering the Legionary minor seminary were told about Maciel as having been an evil person. Yet my son had no problem entering that boarding school, since he had met many priests in his life and saw how the Legionary priests combined a real manliness with love and humility. When he comes back home to visit, he always remarks how humble and simple the Legionary priests are, not owning anything on their own except the crucifix they are given at ordination that they are allowed to be buried with when they die.
Thank you for your reply. Yes, I am also grateful to Pope Benedict XVI for exposing Maciel and purifying the Legionaries. I was fully supportive of having the Legion disbanded until I actually met Legionary priests, and I changed my mind completely. And I have met priests (diocesan) who turned out to be abusers: a very scary situation especially when one has kids.
I can imagine the unhealthiness of an order that would celebrate the birthday of their founder as a feast day. However, I have also had many friends or acquaintances from different religious orders and lay associations and they all tend to put their founders on a pedestal. If you make a light criticism of that founder, even if as innocuous as "I don't agree with that one phrase he said in one of his writings," they look with horror at you as if you were the Antichrist. That is why I am not a member of any lay organization associated with any religious order, because I find it fair to criticize even saints, as only the Blessed Mother was perfect. The Legion had that disease and was forced to relinquish it, which made it a lot better. I can only say that the current Legion seems to have strong leadership and strong priests.
I would not mind you letting me know about what happened, but I don't want to reveal my personal contact information on this website. There are some people working for nefarious organizations that monitor the Pillar articles. At first I was registered under my full name until some guy wrote in response to one of my comments falsely implying that I hate homosexuals and want them imprisoned just because I said homosexual acts were sinful.
Thank you, Thomas - I will just say that disagreeing with a founder who is a saint or on the way to sainthood is different than having a founder with no moral scruples, reprehensible, moesting his own seminarians.
However, obedience to superiors - in this case, the Pope and appropriate Vatican offices is key, and neither order has been suppressed, and time will tell - the real perspective will come in 100 years or so. It sounds like you do not need me to contact you, which is fine.