Vatican officials and leaders of the lay Central Committee of German Catholics (ZdK) held their first face-to-face talks this week since the launch of Germany’s controversial synodal way.
ZdK president Irme Stetter-Karp described the Sept. 2-4 discussions with members of the Roman Curia as “fruitful.”
“There was a remarkable willingness to listen and also question our own view of our counterpart,” she told the German Catholic news agency KNA Sept. 5.
“I found it fruitful, even where it was sometimes confrontational. In my view, it was a good first step and I am open to continuing.”
The ZdK gained international prominence when it co-sponsored the synodal way with Germany’s bishops in 2019.
The initiative, which brought together bishops and select lay people at five assemblies, ended in 2023 with 150 pages of resolutions calling for women deacons, a re-examination of priestly celibacy, lay preaching at Masses, a bigger lay role in selecting bishops, and a revision of the Catechism of the Catholic Church on homosexuality.
Participants also endorsed the creation of a temporary “synodal committee,” preparing the way for a permanent “synodal council” of bishops and ZdK members with the power to make “fundamental decisions of supradiocesan significance” — a proposal vetoed by the Vatican.
For years, ZdK leaders called for direct talks with Vatican officials, but Rome opted to discuss the synodal way solely with the country’s bishops. Following a turnover of Vatican dicastery heads and further discussions with Germany’s bishops, curials officials agreed to meet with the ZdK leadership.
“I believe that Rome now understands better than before what our motivation is on the synodal path,” Stetter-Karp said.
“Previously, people were informed about the attributions of third parties, now they have spoken to us directly.”
“And I do believe that the climate has changed and we have been perceived as committed Christians who are committed to their Church.”
The ZdK delegation, led by Stetter-Karp, included vice presidents Claudia Nothelle and Thomas Söding, as well as secretary general Marc Frings.
They met with Archbishop-elect John Joseph Kennedy, the secretary for the Disciplinary Section of the Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith, who is responsible for handling abuse cases. They also spoke with safeguarding experts Fr. Hans Zollner, S.J., and Msgr. Peter Beer.
The ZdK leaders discussed the progress of talks between Germany’s bishops and the Vatican with Msgr. Markus Graulich, S.D.B., undersecretary of the Dicastery for Legislative Texts.
In addition to talks with Vatican officials, the delegation met with Bernhard Kotsch and Hans-Dieter Lucas, Germany’s ambassadors to the Holy See and Italy respectively, and Maram Stern, executive vice director of the World Jewish Congress.
ZdK vice president Thomas Söding told the Communio website that the organization wanted to emphasize it was “not only involved in the Church field, but above all in the political field.”
The visit’s program was arranged with help from the Konrad Adenauer Foundation, a think tank affiliated with Germany’s center-right Christian Democratic Union (CDU).
Söding said: “We discussed environmental and social issues, not least the peace initiatives, including with the Dicastery for Evangelization (‘Propaganda Fide,’ as it used to be called) and the Academy for Life, but also with the Order of Malta and Sant’Egidio, not forgetting the [German] embassies to the Holy See and the Quirinal [Italian government].”
He said curial officials recognized that German Catholicism was marked by “a strong organization of the lay apostolate.”
“We were able to convey that we are not in opposition to the bishops’ conference, but have a lot in common in the political and ecclesiastical field, even if we are and remain independent,” Söding said.
“What still needs time: that a dual leadership takes nothing away from the bishops, but gives a lot.”
The Vatican has repeatedly ruled out the creation of a synodal council as envisaged in a resolution adopted by synodal way participants in 2022.
A communiqué issued at the end of talks between German bishops and Vatican officials in June underlined that any future national synodal body could not be “above or equal to the bishops’ conference.”
It also said that a commission established by the temporary synodal committee to draw up plans for a synodal body would be “in close contact with a corresponding commission made up of representatives of the relevant dicasteries.”
Asked whether the ZdK accepted such “control” from Rome, Söding said: “What does control mean? The ZdK aims to make synodality permanent. This requires an understanding with Rome.”
“Synodality is not a wish list, but a spiritual process involving hard work and communicative competence. Composition, mandate, and cooperation are the key issues.”
The 2022 synodal way resolution called for a transitional synodal committee, paving the way for the creation of a synodal council “by March 2026 at the latest.” It said the committee would consist of Germany’s 27 diocesan bishops, 27 ZdK members, and 20 other synodal way participants.
But four diocesan bishops have boycotted the committee, which held its first meeting in November 2023 and a second in June. The next plenary assembly is scheduled for December.
Söding told Communio: “In the synodal committee, we work together with all diocesan bishops who do not refuse to cooperate. Why shouldn’t we find a common solution, including the four bishops not currently participating?”
The ZdK, which dates back to 1848, brings together representatives of Germany’s numerous lay associations.
The body, largely funded by the church tax, describes itself as “the Catholic voice in civil society in Germany,” though critics dispute whether it is fully representative of German Catholicism.
The ZdK is led by an executive committee consisting of the president, four vice presidents, and general secretary, and holds a general assembly of members twice a year. It also has a general secretariat in Berlin with around 25 full-time employees.
Ten ZdK representatives belong to a body known as the joint conference, which also has 10 representatives of Germany’s bishops’ conference. The joint conference meets twice a year to discuss topics of common interest.
The ZdK organizes regular large-scale events known as Catholic Days. The next Catholic Day will be held in Würzburg, Bavaria, in 2026.
The last ZdK president to visit Rome for discussions was Stetter-Karp’s predecessor Thomas Sternberg in 2016.
