> Sigh...with all the important things we have to fight about, why are there so many vax absolutists out there? Is there risk associated with not vaccinating? Yes there is a tiny risk. The risk to the those who are themselves vaccinated is even smaller.
For some diseases, the risk is significant. If you don't have 95% of the population va…
> Sigh...with all the important things we have to fight about, why are there so many vax absolutists out there? Is there risk associated with not vaccinating? Yes there is a tiny risk. The risk to the those who are themselves vaccinated is even smaller.
For some diseases, the risk is significant. If you don't have 95% of the population vaccinated against measles, you risk seeing outbreaks among the community. Measles used to kill millions of people each year worldwide. Even if that's not likely to happen today, a community where even 10-20% didn't get a measles vaccine could lead to numerous deaths, even among people who did get vaccinated.
The death rate from measles drops precipitously if they aren't deficient in vitamin A. Which is why it's very unlikely today for people to die of it. There's a known, viable treatment.
Very unlikely? Apparently the recent outbreak in Texas and the surrounding area has 2 deaths for 355 cases. I know that's only about a half a percent, but I'd rather not play with those odds.
And even if you don't die, if getting the measles is anything like the chickenpox I had as a kid, I'd much rather avoid it. Unfortunately the chickenpox vaccine came around a few years too late for me. So I had to miss a week and a half of school, itching miserably, and I still have the scars on my face to prove it.
There's a correlation between those for whom vaccines do not work well, and those who are particularly likely to die of disease. Before deciding those odds apply to every child, it would be nice to know whether they were perfectly healthy children, or whether they already had a serious illness, known or unknown. The annual rate of death from measles when practically every child was getting it was in the 400-500 range. That's considerably less than half a percent.
As far as getting sick goes, yeah, it's unpleasant. That doesn't mean the preventative is always worth it. After all, we can draw a direct line of comparison between your week itching over chicken pox, and the longer-term eczema the child in the original article was itching over. There are also people who die from vaccinations. Live virus vaccines have been known to get people sick (most modern cases of polio come from vaccinations). Risk analysis actually requires looking at both sides, and it's generally good to incorporate the particular facts for the particular person.
Now there is an easy way to remove the religious objections of a lot of people very quickly. The MMR vaccine in the US was developed with the use of aborted fetal cells. There is another measles vaccine developed and used in Japan for several decades, to present day, that did not use them. It is not approved in the US, due to economic protectionism. The moral objection could be easily removed by certain people being less greedy.
The funniest part of the measles debate for me is that my child got full blown measles as a side effect of the MMR vaccine (high fever, rash, the whole thing...). I know of at least one other child who also got measles after the MMR shot. It is not super-uncommon. So, the argument of getting a vaccine to avoid getting sick does not quite work...
I also grew up in a country that, at that time, did not use MMR or varicella vaccines. Got all of these diseases as a child. All the children I knew got them. I am not aware of any single one of the children in my family/school/church circles dying or having any serious side effects as a result of measles (or mumps or rubella or varicella). If those were such a horrible diseases killing millions of children, I should have known at least one dead child.
I believe the numbers reported from Texas are skewed. First, it is likely they had more than 355 cases (for example, I did not take my child to doctor with measles as I knew what it was and could treat it at home - there is nothing else that the doctor could have done for us). Second, you do not know the overall health condition of those who died, there may have been other contributing factors.
You're probably right that there may be more than 355 cases. But the historical data are clear. Your personal anecdotes don't override the statistics. Yes, measles had worse outcomes in poorer countries. But American children died of measles before the vaccine was developed, and presumably they died in just about every other country, too.
The historical data is clear on the fact that the childhood mortality decreased predominantly thanks to better hygiene and nutrition. This also applies to the decrease in mortality to communicable diseases such as measles, as I have observed in my home country in the 1980ies when essentially no one died of measles despite the lack of vaccination program.
> Sigh...with all the important things we have to fight about, why are there so many vax absolutists out there? Is there risk associated with not vaccinating? Yes there is a tiny risk. The risk to the those who are themselves vaccinated is even smaller.
For some diseases, the risk is significant. If you don't have 95% of the population vaccinated against measles, you risk seeing outbreaks among the community. Measles used to kill millions of people each year worldwide. Even if that's not likely to happen today, a community where even 10-20% didn't get a measles vaccine could lead to numerous deaths, even among people who did get vaccinated.
The death rate from measles drops precipitously if they aren't deficient in vitamin A. Which is why it's very unlikely today for people to die of it. There's a known, viable treatment.
Very unlikely? Apparently the recent outbreak in Texas and the surrounding area has 2 deaths for 355 cases. I know that's only about a half a percent, but I'd rather not play with those odds.
And even if you don't die, if getting the measles is anything like the chickenpox I had as a kid, I'd much rather avoid it. Unfortunately the chickenpox vaccine came around a few years too late for me. So I had to miss a week and a half of school, itching miserably, and I still have the scars on my face to prove it.
There's a correlation between those for whom vaccines do not work well, and those who are particularly likely to die of disease. Before deciding those odds apply to every child, it would be nice to know whether they were perfectly healthy children, or whether they already had a serious illness, known or unknown. The annual rate of death from measles when practically every child was getting it was in the 400-500 range. That's considerably less than half a percent.
As far as getting sick goes, yeah, it's unpleasant. That doesn't mean the preventative is always worth it. After all, we can draw a direct line of comparison between your week itching over chicken pox, and the longer-term eczema the child in the original article was itching over. There are also people who die from vaccinations. Live virus vaccines have been known to get people sick (most modern cases of polio come from vaccinations). Risk analysis actually requires looking at both sides, and it's generally good to incorporate the particular facts for the particular person.
Now there is an easy way to remove the religious objections of a lot of people very quickly. The MMR vaccine in the US was developed with the use of aborted fetal cells. There is another measles vaccine developed and used in Japan for several decades, to present day, that did not use them. It is not approved in the US, due to economic protectionism. The moral objection could be easily removed by certain people being less greedy.
The funniest part of the measles debate for me is that my child got full blown measles as a side effect of the MMR vaccine (high fever, rash, the whole thing...). I know of at least one other child who also got measles after the MMR shot. It is not super-uncommon. So, the argument of getting a vaccine to avoid getting sick does not quite work...
I also grew up in a country that, at that time, did not use MMR or varicella vaccines. Got all of these diseases as a child. All the children I knew got them. I am not aware of any single one of the children in my family/school/church circles dying or having any serious side effects as a result of measles (or mumps or rubella or varicella). If those were such a horrible diseases killing millions of children, I should have known at least one dead child.
I believe the numbers reported from Texas are skewed. First, it is likely they had more than 355 cases (for example, I did not take my child to doctor with measles as I knew what it was and could treat it at home - there is nothing else that the doctor could have done for us). Second, you do not know the overall health condition of those who died, there may have been other contributing factors.
You're probably right that there may be more than 355 cases. But the historical data are clear. Your personal anecdotes don't override the statistics. Yes, measles had worse outcomes in poorer countries. But American children died of measles before the vaccine was developed, and presumably they died in just about every other country, too.
The historical data is clear on the fact that the childhood mortality decreased predominantly thanks to better hygiene and nutrition. This also applies to the decrease in mortality to communicable diseases such as measles, as I have observed in my home country in the 1980ies when essentially no one died of measles despite the lack of vaccination program.
What's the death rate for being exposed to single parenthood? Sheesh!
I'm sure you never come in contact with the riffraff, so you have nothing to worry about.
Of the soul or the body?
Oh please.
Do you believe that what's most important in life is reducing the risk of sickness to as close to zero as possible?
I believe it's important to accept that when we're talking about sinners, we're talking about us, not them.