Good they pulled it, then! Odd that it got that far before anybody weighed the "statecraft" issues on the scales with the "moral leadership" issues, because both obviously matter at the level of a bishop's formal statements. Surely one can simply separate frank speech about ideas/structures/rhetoric, best kept in informal, verbal utterances, from careful statements about particular policy matters, best kept in formal, very particular written statements (though I grant that the episcopacy and their comms people seem to have skipped this lesson, in general, which is very odd).
I hope they'll sort that out and come out with both a really solid formal statement that includes paying closer attention to the faith of actual people with actual individual and group histories, and less to the fantasies of sociologists, anthropologists, and salesmen for the "Park Service Religion."
Because, folks, the history is far messier than you think, and the caricatures are far less accurate than chauvinists and apologists and activitsts will tell you. I've been on a learning curve since I married into a life in what was "Indian Territory" until ten minutes ago, and there's plenty still to be learned. The nature of these relationships among multiple American Indian peoples and multiple European-origin peoples, each with multiple faiths and ideological sets, is *not* what the push/pull of totalizing sentimentality wants you to think; it's far, far more interesting.
[ For a fun teaser, for those interested in chasing some of that complicated, mixed, and particular history, here's something I prepared as seed-material for a proposed undergraduate-research program when I was working on the NASNTI grant team at the ill-fated St. Gregory's University in Shawnee, OK: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1EnXv-So3vWnmAqFzuch02h3JVOc&usp=sharing ]
“A small number of bishops worried that some parts were worded could lead to their dioceses being sued, though. That’s obviously a concern for them.”
Dear American Bishops:
Please stop allowing your divine vocation to preach, govern and sanctify for the salvation of souls be thwarted by the worldly concerns of your legal team.
The Bishops have an obligation to protect the assets of the local diocese so they may be used for the benefit of all the people. Admitting liability where there may be none is not good stewardship.
I don't want my contributions to line the pockets of plaintiff's attorneys.
Yeah I'm pretty torn about it. I know one of the failures of the Church's response to the abuse crisis was risk-adverse Bishops being CEOs and not pastors when victims came forward.
On the other hand, after Pope Benedict's apology for the residential schools was deemed insufficient, Pope Francis went to Canada in person to apologize, and his apology was still blasted by the media as being too little too late.
The real problem is we now live in a world where people weaponize apologies.
Nancy, I wouldn't be surprised if news stories such as these may have contributed to US bishops' alertness and care in reading documents that claim to speak on their moral culpability for century old actions.
The grandchildren of some of the native peoples still recount the good and loving care given by Mother Katherine Drexel and her Sisters of the Blessed Sacrament. At least where I live stories are told at honor dances and other gatherings.
In this area, as across the country, the government assigned various religious denominations to run schools. Fortunately, here the SBS were assigned. Most stories passed down tell of the good that the Sisters did and how they welcomed student's families for visits. A rare thing for many of these schools.
A sign of the people's care for Mother Katherine who visited the local native school is a pic of her wearing an honor blanket given by the people of the mission.
If there were specific situations or incidents in the past which Catholic clergy or other "personnel" committed bad acts by all means acknowledge and apologize for those bad actions and try to make restitution if possible.
But I don't see the point of simply apologizing by agreeing to a narrative. I am sure the Bishops are sincere, but the technique resembles the modern act of "virtue signaling" more than repentance of personal sin. Because we are not apologizing for stuff we did, we are apologizing for stuff that other people did or were supposed to have done. What's more, these apologies only go one way, in a way that is consonant with modern pieties.
No one is demanding that American Indians (or for that matter, Germans or Romans!) apologize for killing missionaries in the distant past - in fact the idea would be considered absurd and rightly so.
Agreeing to a narrative is also a problem because when you do so it is hard to disentangle the narrative from specific allegations, true or false, which coincide with the narrative. For example, in Canada right now the Catholic Church has been dealing with allegations related to residential schools in that country. The Church has been accused of mass murder because supposedly mass graves and unmarked graves have been discovered by these residential schools. These allegations are widely reported by Canadian media and repeated by government leaders. Misguided indigenous Canadians have committed violent acts including arson against Catholic Churches. These allegations happen to be a hoax, spread by weasel wording and other narrative building techniques but I understand they are widely believed.
I am sure that the Bishops are very concerned about Native people and want to make sure that bad things in the past don't continue into the future, but it's really good to pause before issuing these sort of apologies in the present moment, where facts don't matter and narratives can and will be abused.
David French has talked and written about the problems — and especially the missed opportunities — that arise when institutions (especially religious ones) pay too much attention to their lawyers and worry too much about minimizing legal liability. It’s unfortunate when it’s the bishops themselves, even a small group, are the ones worried more about legal liability than about doing the right thing. I hope they don’t water down the statement too much; it looks good as it is.
Quit with the apologizing. Read the true history of the residential schools. They were (under) funded by the government, and the church was the only organized institution that could facilitate it. The supposed "mass graves" in Canada turned out to be completely false.
I'm extremely happy to learn US bishops are rightfully wary of language in documents about Catholic moral responsibility in administering 19th-20th C schools for indigenous children. (See Canada)
It appears that these discussions are about 20 yeas behind Canada and Australia - I hope that the American bishops have consulted intensely about the implications of such a document. I believe a document and position is necessary but the Pope's visit to Edmonton in 2022 can be very instructive.
Good they pulled it, then! Odd that it got that far before anybody weighed the "statecraft" issues on the scales with the "moral leadership" issues, because both obviously matter at the level of a bishop's formal statements. Surely one can simply separate frank speech about ideas/structures/rhetoric, best kept in informal, verbal utterances, from careful statements about particular policy matters, best kept in formal, very particular written statements (though I grant that the episcopacy and their comms people seem to have skipped this lesson, in general, which is very odd).
I hope they'll sort that out and come out with both a really solid formal statement that includes paying closer attention to the faith of actual people with actual individual and group histories, and less to the fantasies of sociologists, anthropologists, and salesmen for the "Park Service Religion."
Because, folks, the history is far messier than you think, and the caricatures are far less accurate than chauvinists and apologists and activitsts will tell you. I've been on a learning curve since I married into a life in what was "Indian Territory" until ten minutes ago, and there's plenty still to be learned. The nature of these relationships among multiple American Indian peoples and multiple European-origin peoples, each with multiple faiths and ideological sets, is *not* what the push/pull of totalizing sentimentality wants you to think; it's far, far more interesting.
[ For a fun teaser, for those interested in chasing some of that complicated, mixed, and particular history, here's something I prepared as seed-material for a proposed undergraduate-research program when I was working on the NASNTI grant team at the ill-fated St. Gregory's University in Shawnee, OK: https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?mid=1EnXv-So3vWnmAqFzuch02h3JVOc&usp=sharing ]
“A small number of bishops worried that some parts were worded could lead to their dioceses being sued, though. That’s obviously a concern for them.”
Dear American Bishops:
Please stop allowing your divine vocation to preach, govern and sanctify for the salvation of souls be thwarted by the worldly concerns of your legal team.
Easy to say when you face no potential liability on a subject that is still very poorly understood even in historical circles.
Many Churches were vandalized in Canada because people adopted what was essentially historical mythology. Caution should be taken
The Bishops have an obligation to protect the assets of the local diocese so they may be used for the benefit of all the people. Admitting liability where there may be none is not good stewardship.
I don't want my contributions to line the pockets of plaintiff's attorneys.
Yeah I'm pretty torn about it. I know one of the failures of the Church's response to the abuse crisis was risk-adverse Bishops being CEOs and not pastors when victims came forward.
On the other hand, after Pope Benedict's apology for the residential schools was deemed insufficient, Pope Francis went to Canada in person to apologize, and his apology was still blasted by the media as being too little too late.
The real problem is we now live in a world where people weaponize apologies.
Nancy, I wouldn't be surprised if news stories such as these may have contributed to US bishops' alertness and care in reading documents that claim to speak on their moral culpability for century old actions.
https://nypost.com/2023/08/31/still-no-evidence-of-mass-graves-of-indigenous-children-in-canada/
The grandchildren of some of the native peoples still recount the good and loving care given by Mother Katherine Drexel and her Sisters of the Blessed Sacrament. At least where I live stories are told at honor dances and other gatherings.
In this area, as across the country, the government assigned various religious denominations to run schools. Fortunately, here the SBS were assigned. Most stories passed down tell of the good that the Sisters did and how they welcomed student's families for visits. A rare thing for many of these schools.
A sign of the people's care for Mother Katherine who visited the local native school is a pic of her wearing an honor blanket given by the people of the mission.
I know this was not always the case.
If there were specific situations or incidents in the past which Catholic clergy or other "personnel" committed bad acts by all means acknowledge and apologize for those bad actions and try to make restitution if possible.
But I don't see the point of simply apologizing by agreeing to a narrative. I am sure the Bishops are sincere, but the technique resembles the modern act of "virtue signaling" more than repentance of personal sin. Because we are not apologizing for stuff we did, we are apologizing for stuff that other people did or were supposed to have done. What's more, these apologies only go one way, in a way that is consonant with modern pieties.
No one is demanding that American Indians (or for that matter, Germans or Romans!) apologize for killing missionaries in the distant past - in fact the idea would be considered absurd and rightly so.
Agreeing to a narrative is also a problem because when you do so it is hard to disentangle the narrative from specific allegations, true or false, which coincide with the narrative. For example, in Canada right now the Catholic Church has been dealing with allegations related to residential schools in that country. The Church has been accused of mass murder because supposedly mass graves and unmarked graves have been discovered by these residential schools. These allegations are widely reported by Canadian media and repeated by government leaders. Misguided indigenous Canadians have committed violent acts including arson against Catholic Churches. These allegations happen to be a hoax, spread by weasel wording and other narrative building techniques but I understand they are widely believed.
I am sure that the Bishops are very concerned about Native people and want to make sure that bad things in the past don't continue into the future, but it's really good to pause before issuing these sort of apologies in the present moment, where facts don't matter and narratives can and will be abused.
> Misguided indigenous Canadians have committed violent acts
Misguided Canadians... I don't know what ethnicity.
Bishop bureaucrats. One despairs.
David French has talked and written about the problems — and especially the missed opportunities — that arise when institutions (especially religious ones) pay too much attention to their lawyers and worry too much about minimizing legal liability. It’s unfortunate when it’s the bishops themselves, even a small group, are the ones worried more about legal liability than about doing the right thing. I hope they don’t water down the statement too much; it looks good as it is.
Quit with the apologizing. Read the true history of the residential schools. They were (under) funded by the government, and the church was the only organized institution that could facilitate it. The supposed "mass graves" in Canada turned out to be completely false.
I'm extremely happy to learn US bishops are rightfully wary of language in documents about Catholic moral responsibility in administering 19th-20th C schools for indigenous children. (See Canada)
https://nypost.com/2023/08/31/still-no-evidence-of-mass-graves-of-indigenous-children-in-canada/
It appears that these discussions are about 20 yeas behind Canada and Australia - I hope that the American bishops have consulted intensely about the implications of such a document. I believe a document and position is necessary but the Pope's visit to Edmonton in 2022 can be very instructive.