I'll keep saying it: the Vatican needs to recognize the IVE for the intransigent, abusive semi-cult that it is and shut the whole thing down. This is an outrageous dumpster fire of an organization whose continued existence is an offense to God, abuse victims, and anyone who thinks the Church should be even halfway consistent about her principles.
Yes when our bishop was bringing an IVE community to our diocese I pled with him to explain the past allegations, and I sent a long letter to papal nuncio Achbp Christophe Pierre which I have reports that he recieved. No one halted the institution of IVE in our diocese. This was in 2022, after the Vatican knew of all these allegations. No one explained any of it to any of us raising concerns- it wasn't just me. Our very realistic concerns were quickly swept aside, with no effort to address the allegations. It's crushing and so hurtful to know that the clergy has more trust and faith in the IVE than in their own longtime flock. Now they run many of the children's programs, including a summer camp retreat for youth.
I agree, except that I would say that bishops feel a lot of pressure from the flock to fill assignments so that things don’t change (number of Masses, keeping churches open, making sure everything looks like it did in 1975). I am not saying it is justified (it is quite cowardly and iniquitous) but many of the flock seem to be more concerned about not losing their Mass time or their church might close. These are major kind of complaints a diocesan Curia gets and it is the major concern of a lot of bishops. So the view of bishops when welcoming such groups is “we have no substantive claim against the priests/religious serving in our diocese and they are safe environment trained. So get off my back because you get to keep your Mass or church.”
Unfortunately, I think some in the hierarchy view the problem of abuse as just another PR problem. But there are many good bishops and priests doing good work in this area with true conviction. Just way too much concern about PR and pacifying people. We all need to remember that we will have to give an accounting to the Lord.
The problem is that the current Vatican under Pope Francis has been targeting exclusively conservative religious congregation like the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate Conception, like the liberal religious congregations have no sexual abuse, which is a lie. Therefore some very good bishops are not certain about all the allegations being true, because it seems a lot of the persecution is based on views rather than criminal acts. I am not putting doubt on the allegations listed here, but I know that good bishops don't necessarily want to prevent a group of personally innocent priests from serving in their diocese when they are often way better and less whiny than many diocesan priests.
That is true to an extent, the Vatican is quick to excuse the actions of theological/political allies as “not as bad” or “misunderstood”. But I still think some bishops that appear to invite such groups unquestioningly, care more about PR and filling the gaps than addressing real issues.
Haha…at least you and Pope Francis agree on your disdain for diocesan priests.
I don't disdain diocesan priests. In fact I feel sorry for them when having to deal with bad bishops. Otherwise, I don't disagree with you. Bishops are only human and I can see where they will try to do questionable things not because they mean ill, but because it solves some problem they are trying to solve, and priest shortage is probably the biggest one.
The Church needs to move on these kinds of organizations in order to get rid of the sex abuse rot in the Church. They need to remove all the people who abuse or "Know nothing," when they are well aware of what happening. Failure to act is to act.
I'll keep saying it: the Vatican needs to recognize the IVE for the intransigent, abusive semi-cult that it is and shut the whole thing down. This is an outrageous dumpster fire of an organization whose continued existence is an offense to God, abuse victims, and anyone who thinks the Church should be even halfway consistent about her principles.
Yes when our bishop was bringing an IVE community to our diocese I pled with him to explain the past allegations, and I sent a long letter to papal nuncio Achbp Christophe Pierre which I have reports that he recieved. No one halted the institution of IVE in our diocese. This was in 2022, after the Vatican knew of all these allegations. No one explained any of it to any of us raising concerns- it wasn't just me. Our very realistic concerns were quickly swept aside, with no effort to address the allegations. It's crushing and so hurtful to know that the clergy has more trust and faith in the IVE than in their own longtime flock. Now they run many of the children's programs, including a summer camp retreat for youth.
I agree, except that I would say that bishops feel a lot of pressure from the flock to fill assignments so that things don’t change (number of Masses, keeping churches open, making sure everything looks like it did in 1975). I am not saying it is justified (it is quite cowardly and iniquitous) but many of the flock seem to be more concerned about not losing their Mass time or their church might close. These are major kind of complaints a diocesan Curia gets and it is the major concern of a lot of bishops. So the view of bishops when welcoming such groups is “we have no substantive claim against the priests/religious serving in our diocese and they are safe environment trained. So get off my back because you get to keep your Mass or church.”
Unfortunately, I think some in the hierarchy view the problem of abuse as just another PR problem. But there are many good bishops and priests doing good work in this area with true conviction. Just way too much concern about PR and pacifying people. We all need to remember that we will have to give an accounting to the Lord.
Jesus, I trust in you!
The problem is that the current Vatican under Pope Francis has been targeting exclusively conservative religious congregation like the Franciscan Friars of the Immaculate Conception, like the liberal religious congregations have no sexual abuse, which is a lie. Therefore some very good bishops are not certain about all the allegations being true, because it seems a lot of the persecution is based on views rather than criminal acts. I am not putting doubt on the allegations listed here, but I know that good bishops don't necessarily want to prevent a group of personally innocent priests from serving in their diocese when they are often way better and less whiny than many diocesan priests.
That is true to an extent, the Vatican is quick to excuse the actions of theological/political allies as “not as bad” or “misunderstood”. But I still think some bishops that appear to invite such groups unquestioningly, care more about PR and filling the gaps than addressing real issues.
Haha…at least you and Pope Francis agree on your disdain for diocesan priests.
I don't disdain diocesan priests. In fact I feel sorry for them when having to deal with bad bishops. Otherwise, I don't disagree with you. Bishops are only human and I can see where they will try to do questionable things not because they mean ill, but because it solves some problem they are trying to solve, and priest shortage is probably the biggest one.
Shut it down.
Any word from Bishop Robert Barron on his erstwhile IVE high school seminary? Or is he on his way to England?
The Church needs to move on these kinds of organizations in order to get rid of the sex abuse rot in the Church. They need to remove all the people who abuse or "Know nothing," when they are well aware of what happening. Failure to act is to act.