The irony of parishes offering poor catechesis and then being surprised when Catholic families want something better for the children is also lost on some people.
The irony of parishes offering poor catechesis and then being surprised when Catholic families want something better for the children is also lost on some people.
I recall learning very little in CCD, and my kiddos (at a different parish) as well. However, meeting other kids raised in the same faith was a tremendous boon in my life. Also the example of putting time aside to get to and participate in these classes taught me that faith had value in community. I did plenty extra with my kids at home, as did my parents. When Catholic families want more, they have the option of stepping up in their parish, not turning their back on it.
Many times, the effort it takes to step up in the parish does not actually yield the results that parents are wanting. Even if all the homeschool co-op parents volunteered to be catechists, would they be met with support from the parish if they suggested incorporating different approaches to catechesis? In my case, my reticence about classroom religious ed is the fact that classroom learning is not actually how children assimilate information, especially when it comes to their spiritual formation. Parish and diocesan bureaucracy is often such that even parentsтАЩ greatest efforts will meet with resistance and often it is more fruitful to seek an alternative.
I really, really sympathize with your viewpoint. These things can be very frustrating. I just think not everyone realizes that we don't belong to the Church in order to always receive what we want, and we are just as responsible to give, especially in situations where Truth might be otherwise neglected. In other words, it may be that other kids might need your child's knowledge and examples because they aren't receiving it elsewhere. Just something to think about.
I think that approach lacks an understanding of how children operate. For an adult, I think that your statement may hold. But the children are not formed yet, and the medium of catechesis is the message. Foregoing authentic religious ed at home or elsewhere and instead sending my kids to a program I view as harmful (or a program which is neutral but which disrupts family life somehow)? Sorry- that is to the detriment of the child! (Of course this is all assuming that the program at the parish is average or below average. If it is good and worthwhile, then of course it could be a fine option!) I agree that integration into the parish is for the best for all families, homeschool and otherwise! I would and do prefer to do that in about a hundred ways before I would get to attending classroom RE.
In an ideal world, I think you are right. However, 1) sometimes, a dumb or bad faith formation class or situation can actually be a detriment. Examples I have experienced: the material is presented in a childish way, transmitting the message that тАЬchurch and faith things are for kids only.тАЭ; peer pressure from classmates who mostly donтАЩt care and think this is lame, and the few children who are excited about learning are made fun of or meet the energy of the classmates by also not caring. Why send my kids out for something that may actually neutralize what we are trying to do? (and note that my kids are very young- I was totally the enthused kid in high school youth group/RE among many others who did not care, and by that point it was fine.)
2) time is a limited resource. Allotting time for something that is just nice in principle is not always the best choice!
Anyway, I do think that the comments or at least my participation therein have strayed a bit from the main takeaway of this action by the diocese, which is- why target homeschool groups with a blanket ban? Even if everyone needed to participate in religious ed, which I am obviously not a fan of, why should that preclude homeschool moms from also having a meeting on parish grounds? Anyway. It just stinks of cutting off the faithful at the knees out of vindictiveness.
BTW, in case it isn't obvious, I really love that we can talk about things like this, and learn from new viewpoints. Thanks for taking so much time with me, it is much appreciated.
Are the parishes in San Diego offering poor catechesis? ThatтАЩs quite a big leap from what it says in the article. Even if the catechesis is insipid, lame or boring I think people should do it together. It would have to be outright heretical before people should shun it.
Really?? What have decades of тАЬinsipid, lame, boringтАЭ catechesis at parishes gotten us? Generations of Catholics who no longer practice the faith, and parishes where the classes are filled with kids who are dropped off at RE and whose parents do not attend Mass.
You can do both!! Supplement at home whatever "lame" aspects of ccd that you find. Its difficult to not come to the conclusion that these families just want nothing to do with their parish, and that is wrong.
There are many other aspects of parish life in which they can (and maybe do) participate- foremost, attendance at mass on Sundays. Sacrificing my childrenтАЩs education for the sake of the parishтАЩs CCD program or the parish schoolтАЩs attendance numbers is not something I am willing to do.
Except for the fact that they presumably attend Mass at the parish, donate to the parish, seek the sacraments for their children at the parish, and love the parish so much that they choose to use it as a meeting point for their homeschooling group!
Sending a child to an insipid, lame, boring catechism class that doesn't actually teach them the Faith, does an excellent job of teaching them that the Faith is insipid, lame, boring, and doesn't have any actual substance to it. To even supplement bad catechesis at church with good catechesis at home, the parents would have to be sitting in on the classes to figure out what to supplement. For each child. Which could mean more different classes than there are parents.
Also, time is one of those finite resources that don't get replenished. Children's time should not be wasted by making them sit around being told things they already know for a couple hours a week. Few adults would put up with that.
A lot depends on what the program is. When my kids were confirmed, all the kids in the parish had to go through the same process. It wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible or a huge time commitment, we were glad they did it with the group. My niece and nephew live in a different state, their kids had to go through TWO YEARS of monthly meetings and projects, all of it awful.
The irony of parishes offering poor catechesis and then being surprised when Catholic families want something better for the children is also lost on some people.
I recall learning very little in CCD, and my kiddos (at a different parish) as well. However, meeting other kids raised in the same faith was a tremendous boon in my life. Also the example of putting time aside to get to and participate in these classes taught me that faith had value in community. I did plenty extra with my kids at home, as did my parents. When Catholic families want more, they have the option of stepping up in their parish, not turning their back on it.
Many times, the effort it takes to step up in the parish does not actually yield the results that parents are wanting. Even if all the homeschool co-op parents volunteered to be catechists, would they be met with support from the parish if they suggested incorporating different approaches to catechesis? In my case, my reticence about classroom religious ed is the fact that classroom learning is not actually how children assimilate information, especially when it comes to their spiritual formation. Parish and diocesan bureaucracy is often such that even parentsтАЩ greatest efforts will meet with resistance and often it is more fruitful to seek an alternative.
I really, really sympathize with your viewpoint. These things can be very frustrating. I just think not everyone realizes that we don't belong to the Church in order to always receive what we want, and we are just as responsible to give, especially in situations where Truth might be otherwise neglected. In other words, it may be that other kids might need your child's knowledge and examples because they aren't receiving it elsewhere. Just something to think about.
Of course. Everyone is called to give in different ways. Does that always mean тАЬteaching CCDтАЭ? Probably not. But for many, probably so!
No, but it may mean attending instead of homeschooling the classes.
I think that approach lacks an understanding of how children operate. For an adult, I think that your statement may hold. But the children are not formed yet, and the medium of catechesis is the message. Foregoing authentic religious ed at home or elsewhere and instead sending my kids to a program I view as harmful (or a program which is neutral but which disrupts family life somehow)? Sorry- that is to the detriment of the child! (Of course this is all assuming that the program at the parish is average or below average. If it is good and worthwhile, then of course it could be a fine option!) I agree that integration into the parish is for the best for all families, homeschool and otherwise! I would and do prefer to do that in about a hundred ways before I would get to attending classroom RE.
But why would you think we see it as either/or? Both are meant to supplement each other.
In an ideal world, I think you are right. However, 1) sometimes, a dumb or bad faith formation class or situation can actually be a detriment. Examples I have experienced: the material is presented in a childish way, transmitting the message that тАЬchurch and faith things are for kids only.тАЭ; peer pressure from classmates who mostly donтАЩt care and think this is lame, and the few children who are excited about learning are made fun of or meet the energy of the classmates by also not caring. Why send my kids out for something that may actually neutralize what we are trying to do? (and note that my kids are very young- I was totally the enthused kid in high school youth group/RE among many others who did not care, and by that point it was fine.)
2) time is a limited resource. Allotting time for something that is just nice in principle is not always the best choice!
Anyway, I do think that the comments or at least my participation therein have strayed a bit from the main takeaway of this action by the diocese, which is- why target homeschool groups with a blanket ban? Even if everyone needed to participate in religious ed, which I am obviously not a fan of, why should that preclude homeschool moms from also having a meeting on parish grounds? Anyway. It just stinks of cutting off the faithful at the knees out of vindictiveness.
BTW, in case it isn't obvious, I really love that we can talk about things like this, and learn from new viewpoints. Thanks for taking so much time with me, it is much appreciated.
I am jumping in the comment thread a bit here, but this kind of exchange is one of the reasons that I love The Pillar.
Are the parishes in San Diego offering poor catechesis? ThatтАЩs quite a big leap from what it says in the article. Even if the catechesis is insipid, lame or boring I think people should do it together. It would have to be outright heretical before people should shun it.
Really?? What have decades of тАЬinsipid, lame, boringтАЭ catechesis at parishes gotten us? Generations of Catholics who no longer practice the faith, and parishes where the classes are filled with kids who are dropped off at RE and whose parents do not attend Mass.
You can do both!! Supplement at home whatever "lame" aspects of ccd that you find. Its difficult to not come to the conclusion that these families just want nothing to do with their parish, and that is wrong.
There are many other aspects of parish life in which they can (and maybe do) participate- foremost, attendance at mass on Sundays. Sacrificing my childrenтАЩs education for the sake of the parishтАЩs CCD program or the parish schoolтАЩs attendance numbers is not something I am willing to do.
Except for the fact that they presumably attend Mass at the parish, donate to the parish, seek the sacraments for their children at the parish, and love the parish so much that they choose to use it as a meeting point for their homeschooling group!
Sending a child to an insipid, lame, boring catechism class that doesn't actually teach them the Faith, does an excellent job of teaching them that the Faith is insipid, lame, boring, and doesn't have any actual substance to it. To even supplement bad catechesis at church with good catechesis at home, the parents would have to be sitting in on the classes to figure out what to supplement. For each child. Which could mean more different classes than there are parents.
Also, time is one of those finite resources that don't get replenished. Children's time should not be wasted by making them sit around being told things they already know for a couple hours a week. Few adults would put up with that.
A lot depends on what the program is. When my kids were confirmed, all the kids in the parish had to go through the same process. It wasn't great, but it wasn't terrible or a huge time commitment, we were glad they did it with the group. My niece and nephew live in a different state, their kids had to go through TWO YEARS of monthly meetings and projects, all of it awful.