I know this is Southern California, but what are these guys smoking?
"....homeschooling families are required to participate in parish sacramental preparation programs, and that religious education of children “cannot be done independently of the parish."
Er....what happened to the Church teaching that parents are the primary educators of …
I know this is Southern California, but what are these guys smoking?
"....homeschooling families are required to participate in parish sacramental preparation programs, and that religious education of children “cannot be done independently of the parish."
Er....what happened to the Church teaching that parents are the primary educators of their children? The most important preparation of little children for the sacraments was done years before, when their parents took them to Mass and prayed with them.
It sounds like some parents are less than 100% keen on the regular parish preparation for the sacraments. But the bureaucrats, as ever, are convinced that the customers are always wrong. No one seems keen on investigating why some parents might want an alternative program. They might get honest answers which do not fit the Party Line.
It reminds me of the demise of the last indigenous mass market car maker in England in 2005. Some redundant Rover workers blamed their sad fate on British customers not buying their obsolete vehicles....
We are not customers at our local parish. The "horizontal" aspect of communion - where we are in communion with each other - is important too, not just the "vertical" aspect when God comes to us individually. Unless the parish programme is really garbage, it is very unhealthy to disregard the parish programme as not being good enough for us.
By the way, I attended the beatification of (now Saint) John Henry Newman, and we parked on the old Rover plant. God has a plan!
Many RE programs really are… maybe not “garbage,” but if there is an option that is clearly better, why wouldn’t a parent choose that? It is encouraging in my diocese that Catechesis of the Good Shepherd has been “approved” as sufficient for sacramental prep for first communion. I think CGS is clearly a superior option to a typical classroom setting! I am grateful that a parish provides space for the homeschool co-op at which my children get to experience it.
Doesnt this just further divide the parish? How are these children ever supppsed to meet and go through this process together? Im sorry but i agree completely with the previous poster and am happy about this rule change
How is this different than students in a diocesan school also not participating in parish-based religious Ed? Same sword cutting the opposite direction. Together
ought mean actually together. Otherwise it is skirting punitive action against particular groups.
Catholic school families are the preferred group. They're - on average - everything the bishop is hoping for. They tend have lots of money - at least as a group. They go along with the Catholic mainstream (whether good or bad). They fund one of the bishop's priorities - schools. Catholic schools are like a feather in the bishop's cap so he can show something he's in charge is important in the context of his territory.
Homeschoolers are something different. They're seen as creating a parallel structure to the bishop's priorities. They tend to be more traditional. They have no problem bucking mainstream trends - Catholic or otherwise. This makes them unruly for better or worse. They also tend to have less money as a group.
So when the Catholic school parents come to the bishop and ask him if they can do catechesis and sacrament prep in the context of their Catholic school education (which makes perfect sense), the bishop is more likely to be sympathetic. When the homeschoolers come and ask the same, they're more often seen as rebels who don't want to be part of the community.
None of this says there aren't many great families in Catholic schools - there are! Nor does it mean there aren't problems in homeschool communities (believe me - there are). But it's just the way the Catholic world works right now. There are in groups and out groups in our time of "synodality"
Why does the requirement that all children must go through the parish CCD program necessitate the banning of homeschooling families (presumably parishioners) from using any parish facilities to meet up?
Yes. I think this is part and parcel with a lot of what I see in my own diocese- the requirement stays at the lowest common denominator, and those families and parishioners who are faithful and practicing bear the brunt of the requirements and structures- e.g. mandatory baptism classes even if this is your 3rd, 4th, 5th child and the family is active and engaged at the parish, and raising their kids in the faith.
The article made me cringe just a tad bit. I don't like it when our Church gets controlling of families. But I did want to reply to your comment on CCD being a place for children to meet eachother. Yes, that is a fundamental part of theological education. Theology is "reality" and in that sense it is also a "lived experience" ...the more Christians get to know one another and their experiences in the world, the closer we grow to a deeper conversion and understanding of theology. It needs to start at a young age.
In my parish, the public, private, and homeschool kids meet each other after Mass and run around in the woods with sticks (or wander around and talk to each other, or take over picnic tables and eat together). I don't think they're missing out on that part. I suspect that kids that only see each other in CCD classes are, since they're in class, not socializing.
You simply can't teach all of life in an hour a week - and you're not supposed to. You're supposed to teach catechism for an hour a week and let them learn the rest of life by doing life.
My children are homeschooled and play for a long time after mass with the children they just finished worshipping with. They certainly have a community. When we are leaving Mass, we see the faith formation kiddos being dropped off by their parents to go into class while the parents don’t attend the mass before class or the one going on during their child’s class. How is that group of people their community if they aren’t worshipping with them?
If the classes were equally good, it would not be divisive. There's nothing stopping the kids from socializing together after Mass or in other activities, and discussing the Faith at the same level - if they were actually getting it at the same level. They probably aren't. Parish catechesis has been dreadful for decades. Homeschool catechesis is typically substantially better. There's a reason priests are coming from homeschool families at a disproportionate rate.
There isn't an advantage for an adult to go through a bad or mediocre class teaching things he already knows just because there are other people around when he does it. It isn't an advantage for the other students either, because they learn by getting taught at their level, not by osmosis. We recognize this, and don't put college students in remedial English for fellowship's sake. There isn't an advantage for kids either.
This is a fair point, but it strikes me that deciding "not to provide an exemption for certain groups to skip out of the CCD" is orthogonal to "banning homeschooling groups (whose members are presumably parish families) from using any parish facilities".
In my experience, parishes still have over-site of students who are home schooled for religious education. They are actually held to a higher standard because their knowledge is tested.
What is crazy is that my children are not tested. There is parish over site, like we have to go to the retreats and a few classes the faith formation kiddos have to go to, but no one will TEST my children because they don’t TEST the faith formation kiddos. They agree it isn’t fair, but I honestly wish they would. I’d love to have all the kids tested before receiving, even if it is just explaining simply what the Eucharist is.
Yeah. The whole reason for waiting until 7 to receive Holy Communion is that the Latin tradition puts an emphasis on understanding Who we receive. Taking up a desk in a classroom doesn't ensure that.
I feel this way about baptism classes (sorry I have mentioned it before in the comments here but it is a big pet peeve of mine)- first, give us a 10 or 20 minute quiz about baptism, and certain results trigger a meeting with the deacon/priest or attendance of the class, and certain results trigger a result of “okay let’s schedule your child’s baptism.”
Unfortunately religious consumerism is a fact of life. I recall the late Father Edward Holloway back in the 1970s describing how Catholics were already seeking out parishes according to the style of the priest - rather similar to Anglicans with high/low church preferences. As a working priest, he had to pay the parish bills.
The explosion in car ownership made parish picking all the easier. Don't like Fr Smith at the Sacred Heart? Drive ten minutes to St Joseph's.
In our parish it was the homeschooled parents and children that were far more involved in the parish than most ‘Catholic schooled’ children. In fact, very few children and parents, from the Catholic schools, participated in Mass at all. It was only homeschooling that helped our children learn to love and practise the Faith. I’m afraid to consider what may have happened had we not homeschooled.
That is, or used to be, the policy in my diocese--the idea was that all children of the parish should be prepared together. Sometimes parents thought they could do a better job than the parish, but often it was just that their children were alreadly learning the faith, so why do it twice? Both were good points, I thought.
It seems to me that the Church - dioceses and individual parishes - ought to strive for "both and...". This article comes on the heels of another recent article re Bishop P seeking to adjust from the CHD to school funding. Christian, Catholic-based education of children has evangelistic efficacy, without question. All that said, Catholic schools don't work for everyone for many reasons - cost, availability, travel and work schedule, special needs, and other practical reasons. Home schooling is growing and vibrant and the typical status of home schoolers (less wealthy, more independent and can-do minded, and more willing to help others in the same task) was described by another commentor. At our parish, we have a home school support program that is in every way Catholic, growing, and melds completely into the rest of the religious education provided by the parish. What is necessary to accomplish this is pastoral leadership, school/DRE leadership, volunteers, and committed parents. When you have all that, and we do and it is growing, then we can have both support of Catholic schools and support of Catholic home schooling.
Further, if there is a trust/mistrust issue between diocesan reps and home schoolers, then perhaps a lot more dialogue and less policy is warranted in order to find a way to serve rather than to prevent and obstruct. It is sad if people are cemented into their biases.
I know this is Southern California, but what are these guys smoking?
"....homeschooling families are required to participate in parish sacramental preparation programs, and that religious education of children “cannot be done independently of the parish."
Er....what happened to the Church teaching that parents are the primary educators of their children? The most important preparation of little children for the sacraments was done years before, when their parents took them to Mass and prayed with them.
It sounds like some parents are less than 100% keen on the regular parish preparation for the sacraments. But the bureaucrats, as ever, are convinced that the customers are always wrong. No one seems keen on investigating why some parents might want an alternative program. They might get honest answers which do not fit the Party Line.
It reminds me of the demise of the last indigenous mass market car maker in England in 2005. Some redundant Rover workers blamed their sad fate on British customers not buying their obsolete vehicles....
We are not customers at our local parish. The "horizontal" aspect of communion - where we are in communion with each other - is important too, not just the "vertical" aspect when God comes to us individually. Unless the parish programme is really garbage, it is very unhealthy to disregard the parish programme as not being good enough for us.
By the way, I attended the beatification of (now Saint) John Henry Newman, and we parked on the old Rover plant. God has a plan!
Many RE programs really are… maybe not “garbage,” but if there is an option that is clearly better, why wouldn’t a parent choose that? It is encouraging in my diocese that Catechesis of the Good Shepherd has been “approved” as sufficient for sacramental prep for first communion. I think CGS is clearly a superior option to a typical classroom setting! I am grateful that a parish provides space for the homeschool co-op at which my children get to experience it.
Doesnt this just further divide the parish? How are these children ever supppsed to meet and go through this process together? Im sorry but i agree completely with the previous poster and am happy about this rule change
How is this different than students in a diocesan school also not participating in parish-based religious Ed? Same sword cutting the opposite direction. Together
ought mean actually together. Otherwise it is skirting punitive action against particular groups.
Catholic school families are the preferred group. They're - on average - everything the bishop is hoping for. They tend have lots of money - at least as a group. They go along with the Catholic mainstream (whether good or bad). They fund one of the bishop's priorities - schools. Catholic schools are like a feather in the bishop's cap so he can show something he's in charge is important in the context of his territory.
Homeschoolers are something different. They're seen as creating a parallel structure to the bishop's priorities. They tend to be more traditional. They have no problem bucking mainstream trends - Catholic or otherwise. This makes them unruly for better or worse. They also tend to have less money as a group.
So when the Catholic school parents come to the bishop and ask him if they can do catechesis and sacrament prep in the context of their Catholic school education (which makes perfect sense), the bishop is more likely to be sympathetic. When the homeschoolers come and ask the same, they're more often seen as rebels who don't want to be part of the community.
None of this says there aren't many great families in Catholic schools - there are! Nor does it mean there aren't problems in homeschool communities (believe me - there are). But it's just the way the Catholic world works right now. There are in groups and out groups in our time of "synodality"
Why does the requirement that all children must go through the parish CCD program necessitate the banning of homeschooling families (presumably parishioners) from using any parish facilities to meet up?
Why would the latter make you happy?
I don't think the point of CCD is for children to meet each other. The point is to come to know, love and serve God better.
The quality of CCD teachers is varied at best.
I think your average home school family will do a far superior job teaching the faith and integrating it into a child's daily life.
Yes. I think this is part and parcel with a lot of what I see in my own diocese- the requirement stays at the lowest common denominator, and those families and parishioners who are faithful and practicing bear the brunt of the requirements and structures- e.g. mandatory baptism classes even if this is your 3rd, 4th, 5th child and the family is active and engaged at the parish, and raising their kids in the faith.
The article made me cringe just a tad bit. I don't like it when our Church gets controlling of families. But I did want to reply to your comment on CCD being a place for children to meet eachother. Yes, that is a fundamental part of theological education. Theology is "reality" and in that sense it is also a "lived experience" ...the more Christians get to know one another and their experiences in the world, the closer we grow to a deeper conversion and understanding of theology. It needs to start at a young age.
In my parish, the public, private, and homeschool kids meet each other after Mass and run around in the woods with sticks (or wander around and talk to each other, or take over picnic tables and eat together). I don't think they're missing out on that part. I suspect that kids that only see each other in CCD classes are, since they're in class, not socializing.
You simply can't teach all of life in an hour a week - and you're not supposed to. You're supposed to teach catechism for an hour a week and let them learn the rest of life by doing life.
My children are homeschooled and play for a long time after mass with the children they just finished worshipping with. They certainly have a community. When we are leaving Mass, we see the faith formation kiddos being dropped off by their parents to go into class while the parents don’t attend the mass before class or the one going on during their child’s class. How is that group of people their community if they aren’t worshipping with them?
If the classes were equally good, it would not be divisive. There's nothing stopping the kids from socializing together after Mass or in other activities, and discussing the Faith at the same level - if they were actually getting it at the same level. They probably aren't. Parish catechesis has been dreadful for decades. Homeschool catechesis is typically substantially better. There's a reason priests are coming from homeschool families at a disproportionate rate.
There isn't an advantage for an adult to go through a bad or mediocre class teaching things he already knows just because there are other people around when he does it. It isn't an advantage for the other students either, because they learn by getting taught at their level, not by osmosis. We recognize this, and don't put college students in remedial English for fellowship's sake. There isn't an advantage for kids either.
This is a fair point, but it strikes me that deciding "not to provide an exemption for certain groups to skip out of the CCD" is orthogonal to "banning homeschooling groups (whose members are presumably parish families) from using any parish facilities".
In my experience, parishes still have over-site of students who are home schooled for religious education. They are actually held to a higher standard because their knowledge is tested.
What is crazy is that my children are not tested. There is parish over site, like we have to go to the retreats and a few classes the faith formation kiddos have to go to, but no one will TEST my children because they don’t TEST the faith formation kiddos. They agree it isn’t fair, but I honestly wish they would. I’d love to have all the kids tested before receiving, even if it is just explaining simply what the Eucharist is.
Yeah. The whole reason for waiting until 7 to receive Holy Communion is that the Latin tradition puts an emphasis on understanding Who we receive. Taking up a desk in a classroom doesn't ensure that.
I feel this way about baptism classes (sorry I have mentioned it before in the comments here but it is a big pet peeve of mine)- first, give us a 10 or 20 minute quiz about baptism, and certain results trigger a meeting with the deacon/priest or attendance of the class, and certain results trigger a result of “okay let’s schedule your child’s baptism.”
Unfortunately religious consumerism is a fact of life. I recall the late Father Edward Holloway back in the 1970s describing how Catholics were already seeking out parishes according to the style of the priest - rather similar to Anglicans with high/low church preferences. As a working priest, he had to pay the parish bills.
The explosion in car ownership made parish picking all the easier. Don't like Fr Smith at the Sacred Heart? Drive ten minutes to St Joseph's.
I mean, Pope Francis himself recommended a similar idea: https://www.ncregister.com/commentaries/did-pope-francis-just-endorse-parish-shopping#:~:text=%E2%80%9CI%20would%20say%20that%20there,parish%20is%20where%20you%20live.
In our parish it was the homeschooled parents and children that were far more involved in the parish than most ‘Catholic schooled’ children. In fact, very few children and parents, from the Catholic schools, participated in Mass at all. It was only homeschooling that helped our children learn to love and practise the Faith. I’m afraid to consider what may have happened had we not homeschooled.
That is, or used to be, the policy in my diocese--the idea was that all children of the parish should be prepared together. Sometimes parents thought they could do a better job than the parish, but often it was just that their children were alreadly learning the faith, so why do it twice? Both were good points, I thought.
It seems to me that the Church - dioceses and individual parishes - ought to strive for "both and...". This article comes on the heels of another recent article re Bishop P seeking to adjust from the CHD to school funding. Christian, Catholic-based education of children has evangelistic efficacy, without question. All that said, Catholic schools don't work for everyone for many reasons - cost, availability, travel and work schedule, special needs, and other practical reasons. Home schooling is growing and vibrant and the typical status of home schoolers (less wealthy, more independent and can-do minded, and more willing to help others in the same task) was described by another commentor. At our parish, we have a home school support program that is in every way Catholic, growing, and melds completely into the rest of the religious education provided by the parish. What is necessary to accomplish this is pastoral leadership, school/DRE leadership, volunteers, and committed parents. When you have all that, and we do and it is growing, then we can have both support of Catholic schools and support of Catholic home schooling.
Further, if there is a trust/mistrust issue between diocesan reps and home schoolers, then perhaps a lot more dialogue and less policy is warranted in order to find a way to serve rather than to prevent and obstruct. It is sad if people are cemented into their biases.
I really appreciate the thoughtfulness of your comment.
This.