The Pillar does a great job of staying on top of what is considered the hypocrisy ( Burrill ) , the criminality ( the Vatican Financial Scandal ) , ( the Clerical Abuse Crisis ( Philadelphia et. al) of the Catholic Church. My impression is that the Pillar’s subscribers give the Church a free pass. Lord knows the myriad explanations the…
The Pillar does a great job of staying on top of what is considered the hypocrisy ( Burrill ) , the criminality ( the Vatican Financial Scandal ) , ( the Clerical Abuse Crisis ( Philadelphia et. al) of the Catholic Church. My impression is that the Pillar’s subscribers give the Church a free pass. Lord knows the myriad explanations the subscribers might have for that ( Everyone is a human/sinner etc. ). There are many (non) denominational Churches with less mal/misfeasance. How do they convince others the Church is the Way, Truth and light.
Not sure what you mean by us giving the Church a free pass because we’re subscribers. And comparing with non-denominational churches, if Satan wants to destroy the true Church, why would he not be trying to do so from the inside? Seems like perfect sense to me.
As for you last question, by reading what Jesus says in the Bible, and listening to the disciples and church fathers.
“ If Satan wants to destroy the true Church , why would he not be trying to to do so from the inside” ? Are you saying Satan is running the Church? I would ask: “ If the Holy Spirit wants to reform the Church why would He not be trying to expose its corruption? Take your pick. The Church is sick.
I’m saying Satan works on corrupting people that are in the hierarchy. He does this with everyone in the Church to stray us away from God, so why would he not attack the hierarchy all the harder? Obviously some will succumb.
And yes, the Holy Spirit is working to reform (in the sense of purifying, not secularizing) the Church by exposing the corruption. That’s basically the point of The Pillar. We’re subscribers because we support them in this and to stay informed.
And yes, the Church has always been sick and will always be sick because everyone in it is human and has sin. Not sure how it may have been perceived that I was saying otherwise.
The Pillar is serving up in great detail stories documenting the corruption within the Church. Any Catholic who is not offended by finding themselves a member of a corrupt organization and advocating for transparency and change is giving the Church a free pass. Promoting the Church when one knows its corruption facilitates , aids and abets, its corruption.
Well, regarding subscribers in particular, I should think that financially supporting a team of people that exposes corruption stands against “giving the Church a free pass” to forgo repentance. And what could be a better antidote to corruption than preaching the Gospel entrusted to the Church and calling people to return to the sacraments which are stewarded by the Church? “To whom shall we go…?”
Here is the deal. Most of us subscribers are over the age of 50 . We are cradle Catholics and if we had children we baptized and catechized them in the Catholic Church. From top to bottom the Church is presently steeped in corruption as it has been at various times in its history. And we were either taught or independently conflated our spirituality with the Church. We thought that being a practicing Catholic provided a pathway to heaven.To leave the Church was to consign our soul to someplace other than heaven. Where should we go ? Wherever we find God. If we can find him somewhere in the midst of a corrupt organization, good. If we can find him through our personal relationship with Christ outside of organized religion, good. But …what about our progeny ? If you believe that a corrupt organization “ owns” our Triune God and outside that corrupt organization our children will not go to heaven, then you will pray and encourage them to stay within a corrupt organization. The Church is not God. It purpose is to lead people to Christ not be a member of organized crime. How anyone can read The Pillar and come away wanting to promote today’s Church is beyond me.The Church is entering a new Reformation. How it comes out is up to The Holy Spirit . In the meantime, go direct and let the Holy Spirit purge the corruption.
I would suggest reading The Way of Perfection (if you do not have time to read a book, simply stop reading any news for a while and then there will be time). St. Teresa of Avila struggled with the same question: what to do in very bad times when it seemed that she was powerless to effect change. So did other saints who lived lives of prayer and penance for the salvation of poor sinners (of which they generally accounted themselves the foremost). Is this "giving the Church a free pass"? No. Do you know how many subscribers are living hidden lives of prayer and penance for the purification of the Church? No. I guarantee it is more than you think, otherwise they would not be doing the "hidden" part very well :)
Dennis Doyle, dude, I don’t have access to the Pillar’s demographics overall but I’m 40 years old and Ed and JD are younger than me. I have all kinds of friends and family: cradle Catholics who just happen to be there, secular people, spiritual-not-religious people, evangelicals, and faithful, evangelized Catholics. Yeah, I’m not here because someone drilled into me it was this way or hell. I’m here because the world offers divorce and confusion (or false certainty), whereas I have found through the Church a life-giving love and the murky certainty of faith, which my generation does not have, thanks in no small part to your generation turning against it, actually. How does this love reach me? the sacraments, the saints, and the liturgical calendar. Who else has these things?
The Church is so much greater when lived from the inside. I am not sure despite your many years of membership that you have this experience, but may God grant it to you!
To add in John’s point, I converted from the Lutheran church in my mid-20s and I’m 30 now. I agree with him, your assumption about the demographics is doubtfully, especially since this all partially spawned from their old podcast when they were with CNA.
That aside, the Church hierarchy is a member of the Church as well and cannot be left behind or ignored, however sinful some of its members are. Just as 70% of active Catholics don’t believe in the real presence. Our duty is to love all members despite their sinfulness. Jesus built the Church on a man who denied him 3 times, and instructed us to forgive each other endlessly (77 times). That’s how I can still look to the hierarchy. It’s not my decision, it’s God’s. By supporting the Pillar we are enabling the corruption to be brought into the light so that the hierarchy will be forced to fix things, or have the firepower to do so if they already had a mind to (like how Ed’s research seemingly helped the prosecution with evidence that brought us the financial trial). We bring people to the Church by showing them how it is clearly the way. We’re not going to get everyone, and we never were going to. All we can do is bring the message to them and pray they will listen to the call.
Fritz…you and John are to be commended for wanting to advance your spiritual lives. If you find the Church aids in that development that is great. The statistic that 70 percent of Catholics no longer believe in the Real Presence is in no small part attributable to the corruption that the Pillar brings to light. It is hard for folks to believe that the leaders of a criminal enterprise have the God Given ability to do what the faithful can’t do.
If it helps, I tend to compare it to a wonderful company that has some bad actors working in it. That doesn’t make the company bad, but the people doing bad things. The Church isn’t a criminal enterprise, there are just bad actors within it. If everyone in it were corrupt that would be one thing, but I believe the majority are listening to the Lord and obeying their call.
I think this better expresses what I was driving at, from the current President of Communion and Liberation, “Christian life is not the life of an individual in relationship with God, but rather the life of a community present in history, which offers itself as a light on a mountaintop, or as salt in the earth, to illuminate and enliven every aspect of existence. The rebirth of the self, the “I,” and the rebirth of communal experience are the two poles of Christian life, and they feed off of one another. Without an “I” that is authentic and self-aware, community life would be merely a social phenomenon without roots. Without a social expression, the life of one’s “I” would find no opportunities for expression and nourishment.”
The Pillar does a great job of staying on top of what is considered the hypocrisy ( Burrill ) , the criminality ( the Vatican Financial Scandal ) , ( the Clerical Abuse Crisis ( Philadelphia et. al) of the Catholic Church. My impression is that the Pillar’s subscribers give the Church a free pass. Lord knows the myriad explanations the subscribers might have for that ( Everyone is a human/sinner etc. ). There are many (non) denominational Churches with less mal/misfeasance. How do they convince others the Church is the Way, Truth and light.
Not sure what you mean by us giving the Church a free pass because we’re subscribers. And comparing with non-denominational churches, if Satan wants to destroy the true Church, why would he not be trying to do so from the inside? Seems like perfect sense to me.
As for you last question, by reading what Jesus says in the Bible, and listening to the disciples and church fathers.
“ If Satan wants to destroy the true Church , why would he not be trying to to do so from the inside” ? Are you saying Satan is running the Church? I would ask: “ If the Holy Spirit wants to reform the Church why would He not be trying to expose its corruption? Take your pick. The Church is sick.
I’m saying Satan works on corrupting people that are in the hierarchy. He does this with everyone in the Church to stray us away from God, so why would he not attack the hierarchy all the harder? Obviously some will succumb.
And yes, the Holy Spirit is working to reform (in the sense of purifying, not secularizing) the Church by exposing the corruption. That’s basically the point of The Pillar. We’re subscribers because we support them in this and to stay informed.
And yes, the Church has always been sick and will always be sick because everyone in it is human and has sin. Not sure how it may have been perceived that I was saying otherwise.
What would you expect someone/a subscriber to say or do that would constitute not giving the Church a free pass?
The Pillar is serving up in great detail stories documenting the corruption within the Church. Any Catholic who is not offended by finding themselves a member of a corrupt organization and advocating for transparency and change is giving the Church a free pass. Promoting the Church when one knows its corruption facilitates , aids and abets, its corruption.
Well, regarding subscribers in particular, I should think that financially supporting a team of people that exposes corruption stands against “giving the Church a free pass” to forgo repentance. And what could be a better antidote to corruption than preaching the Gospel entrusted to the Church and calling people to return to the sacraments which are stewarded by the Church? “To whom shall we go…?”
Here is the deal. Most of us subscribers are over the age of 50 . We are cradle Catholics and if we had children we baptized and catechized them in the Catholic Church. From top to bottom the Church is presently steeped in corruption as it has been at various times in its history. And we were either taught or independently conflated our spirituality with the Church. We thought that being a practicing Catholic provided a pathway to heaven.To leave the Church was to consign our soul to someplace other than heaven. Where should we go ? Wherever we find God. If we can find him somewhere in the midst of a corrupt organization, good. If we can find him through our personal relationship with Christ outside of organized religion, good. But …what about our progeny ? If you believe that a corrupt organization “ owns” our Triune God and outside that corrupt organization our children will not go to heaven, then you will pray and encourage them to stay within a corrupt organization. The Church is not God. It purpose is to lead people to Christ not be a member of organized crime. How anyone can read The Pillar and come away wanting to promote today’s Church is beyond me.The Church is entering a new Reformation. How it comes out is up to The Holy Spirit . In the meantime, go direct and let the Holy Spirit purge the corruption.
I would suggest reading The Way of Perfection (if you do not have time to read a book, simply stop reading any news for a while and then there will be time). St. Teresa of Avila struggled with the same question: what to do in very bad times when it seemed that she was powerless to effect change. So did other saints who lived lives of prayer and penance for the salvation of poor sinners (of which they generally accounted themselves the foremost). Is this "giving the Church a free pass"? No. Do you know how many subscribers are living hidden lives of prayer and penance for the purification of the Church? No. I guarantee it is more than you think, otherwise they would not be doing the "hidden" part very well :)
Dennis Doyle, dude, I don’t have access to the Pillar’s demographics overall but I’m 40 years old and Ed and JD are younger than me. I have all kinds of friends and family: cradle Catholics who just happen to be there, secular people, spiritual-not-religious people, evangelicals, and faithful, evangelized Catholics. Yeah, I’m not here because someone drilled into me it was this way or hell. I’m here because the world offers divorce and confusion (or false certainty), whereas I have found through the Church a life-giving love and the murky certainty of faith, which my generation does not have, thanks in no small part to your generation turning against it, actually. How does this love reach me? the sacraments, the saints, and the liturgical calendar. Who else has these things?
The Church is so much greater when lived from the inside. I am not sure despite your many years of membership that you have this experience, but may God grant it to you!
To add in John’s point, I converted from the Lutheran church in my mid-20s and I’m 30 now. I agree with him, your assumption about the demographics is doubtfully, especially since this all partially spawned from their old podcast when they were with CNA.
That aside, the Church hierarchy is a member of the Church as well and cannot be left behind or ignored, however sinful some of its members are. Just as 70% of active Catholics don’t believe in the real presence. Our duty is to love all members despite their sinfulness. Jesus built the Church on a man who denied him 3 times, and instructed us to forgive each other endlessly (77 times). That’s how I can still look to the hierarchy. It’s not my decision, it’s God’s. By supporting the Pillar we are enabling the corruption to be brought into the light so that the hierarchy will be forced to fix things, or have the firepower to do so if they already had a mind to (like how Ed’s research seemingly helped the prosecution with evidence that brought us the financial trial). We bring people to the Church by showing them how it is clearly the way. We’re not going to get everyone, and we never were going to. All we can do is bring the message to them and pray they will listen to the call.
Fritz…you and John are to be commended for wanting to advance your spiritual lives. If you find the Church aids in that development that is great. The statistic that 70 percent of Catholics no longer believe in the Real Presence is in no small part attributable to the corruption that the Pillar brings to light. It is hard for folks to believe that the leaders of a criminal enterprise have the God Given ability to do what the faithful can’t do.
If it helps, I tend to compare it to a wonderful company that has some bad actors working in it. That doesn’t make the company bad, but the people doing bad things. The Church isn’t a criminal enterprise, there are just bad actors within it. If everyone in it were corrupt that would be one thing, but I believe the majority are listening to the Lord and obeying their call.
I think this better expresses what I was driving at, from the current President of Communion and Liberation, “Christian life is not the life of an individual in relationship with God, but rather the life of a community present in history, which offers itself as a light on a mountaintop, or as salt in the earth, to illuminate and enliven every aspect of existence. The rebirth of the self, the “I,” and the rebirth of communal experience are the two poles of Christian life, and they feed off of one another. Without an “I” that is authentic and self-aware, community life would be merely a social phenomenon without roots. Without a social expression, the life of one’s “I” would find no opportunities for expression and nourishment.”