Because Pope Benedict appointed most of the older cardinals, and they aren't worth listening to. Synodal, for those not in the know, means listening to people the pope likes. Francis will continue to insult young priests every chance he gets for such things as their choice in hats. Older cardinals and young Catholics who still appreciate Benedict are anathema and never to be listened to.
If the Pope’s goal is to silence the voices of cardinals that he did not appoint; the banning of the over 80 cardinals is an effective means of doing so.
Maybe that is the question; but the day on which I am qualified to tell the Vicar of Christ what he should and shouldn’t do is the first day of the Apocalypse, as far as I’m concerned.
1,000 cults might well be an underestimate, once you add up all the sedevacatists, integralists, traditionalists, liberals, feminists, sexual liberationists and people somewhere in the mushy middle with countless shades of confused theology. Look at the wretched state of what is left of the Anglicans as yet another group forms to include those who adhere to what is supposed to be true Christian teaching.
Pope Francis is trying to use the same Delphi Technique he used in the Synod to influence the concave Don't allow this!! Everyone listening to the Cardinals speak and forming their own opinions with the help of the Holy Spirit is infinitely better than allowing the Delphi Technique to influence the tables, thus influence and poison the whole conclave!
I see other people are saying that there might be some element of non-Cardinals admitted to the voting, in which case the joke is on me. Still, this "synodal" revision thing is pretty goofy.
It might ease minds to know that at the Council of Constance, which ended the great Western schism when three men claimed to be Pope, those present were divided by language group, with each group having one vote in the election of the new Pope. Since all the cardinals had been appointed by one or another of the three, they weren't the ones who voted; the nations did. Ever since, whenever a Pope has seemed seriously ill, any council in session has been closed so as not to present the dilemna of whether the council or the cardinals should elect the next Pope.
> sessions of similar style to the synod of synodality, in which participants sit at round tables of 10 or so participants
Interesting. I wonder who decides which participants sit at what table (if the method is something other than randomly generated)... in these fraught modern times, I suppose it's possible to use AI both to generate seating charts (as though for weddings) and to simulate the spread of ideas (as though for germs) so that a person could automatically generate a chart that they imagine will have some desired result (though it seems to me this could quite easily be defeated by a determined effort far in advance to get cardinals to actually know one another socially.)
"one proposed change would limit general congregations to the cardinals eligible to participate in the conclave election — those under 80 years of age."
Regarding restricting access of elderly cardinals to conclaves: Is this really such a big innovation? It kind of makes sense to me that if cardinals over 80 aren't considered mentally competent to vote they shouldn't be expected to attend. This does free them from the burden of traveling, which becomes more significant the more international cardinals you have.
Cynically, and off topic, I don't know why we have retirement ages in the Church from anything. I don't see where Our Lord said that you get to rest from spiritual labor before death, and I don't see how clerics retiring when they begin to feel frail would produce benefit in the life of the Church or in their own lives. I can't know the hearts of others, but I know that outside of sacred vocations, plans to retire lead to decreased engagement both before and after retirement. This is fine in engineering, and maybe this is fine if the episcopate is a management role, but holy orders were not established by Christ as a management role. They were established as a ministry, and if my memory serves, the phrase "you are a priest forever, in the line of Melchizedek" is commonly understood to apply to all priests ordained under the New Testament. If the priesthood and episcopate have turned into an exhausting management nightmare, should we maybe try to fix the problem rather than ameliorating the symptoms? Laity would be far better equipped to produce the financial reports and sign the checks than to preach and pretend to concelebrate, for instance, if we feel the need to draw them deeper into parish life. I find great beauty in watching an old priest say Mass.
Noting how burdensome travel becomes as the cardinals get older is a good point.
Any retired priest I've seen is saying Masses, either helping with a busy Sunday schedule or filling in while the pastor goes on retreat or takes a family vacation. I don't think ending their priestly duties is the objective. Cherishing our elders is respectful, and letting younger and more exuberant priests take on the yoke of pastoring is fair.
Isn't a major problem that the Cardinals don't know each other that well as it is? I can't imagine throwing in a bunch of laity and religious into the situation. Wouldn't a better reform be to make the number of electors smaller?
The constant news that comes out (seemingly every week) about Pope Francis' increasing efforts to change as many things as possible as quickly as possible make my head swim.
I want to pray for the Pope and to respect & honor his office, but he makes it so difficult.
On the other hand, I just can't shake the thought and desire that the best thing would be for this pontificate to end soon....before he & his henchmen can do more long term damage to the Church.
Lord protect your Church....and bring us a holy pope who doesn't seek to change everything to fit the modern, secular zeitgeist. 🙏🏻
"Senior Roman clergy have told The Pillar that there have also been rumors that Pope Francis has considered the idea of inviting lay people to participate in general congregations..."
So this time we will have to be worried about the influence of a "Lay" mafia.
Seriously though, getting lay people involved means letting governments and wealthy private interests involved. That's who the "lay people" "they" (meaning the team Francis clique) pick will work for ultimately. Very short sighted idea which inclines the church to dependence on the world rather than independence.
The short list of a lay papal electors has been leaked: Megan Rapinoe, Alex Soros, Whoopi Goldberg, Xi Jinping, Hunter Biden, Elton John, Chelsea Clinton and Madonna Ciccone. Don Novello was initially penciled in but was disqualified for being over 80.
How many ways can Francis influence the next conclave with his own agenda?
Unironically: as many as he’d like.
Francis is the Pope.
And long may he reign!
Will have to gin up my reading of The Political Pope.
I don’t mean to be a goofy goober but how is excluding the voice of the elderly synodal.
Because Pope Benedict appointed most of the older cardinals, and they aren't worth listening to. Synodal, for those not in the know, means listening to people the pope likes. Francis will continue to insult young priests every chance he gets for such things as their choice in hats. Older cardinals and young Catholics who still appreciate Benedict are anathema and never to be listened to.
If the Pope’s goal is to silence the voices of cardinals that he did not appoint; the banning of the over 80 cardinals is an effective means of doing so.
Looking forward to the “He can’t do that!” reactions.
He’s the Pope. He absolutely can do that. And the next Pope can undo it, or change it, or completely replace it. That’s how the Pope works 🤷🏻♂️
He sure can. The point is whether he should.
Maybe that is the question; but the day on which I am qualified to tell the Vicar of Christ what he should and shouldn’t do is the first day of the Apocalypse, as far as I’m concerned.
Adorable. Utterly wrong, of course, but cute.
Obviously a pope can be wrong or even wicked. Obviously anyone can say so. It's not a subtle matter.
Cough canon law says you can cough.
Death of Tradition by 1,000 cuts
A thousand cuts or 1,000 cults, as the schisms multiply?
1,000 cults might well be an underestimate, once you add up all the sedevacatists, integralists, traditionalists, liberals, feminists, sexual liberationists and people somewhere in the mushy middle with countless shades of confused theology. Look at the wretched state of what is left of the Anglicans as yet another group forms to include those who adhere to what is supposed to be true Christian teaching.
Pope Francis is trying to use the same Delphi Technique he used in the Synod to influence the concave Don't allow this!! Everyone listening to the Cardinals speak and forming their own opinions with the help of the Holy Spirit is infinitely better than allowing the Delphi Technique to influence the tables, thus influence and poison the whole conclave!
Vandalism Uber Alles is, I suppose, a kind of papal motto....
Inspiring.
Reminds me of those paradigmatic synodal slogans:
Restrict the space of your tent
And
Fewer! Fewer! Fewer!
I see other people are saying that there might be some element of non-Cardinals admitted to the voting, in which case the joke is on me. Still, this "synodal" revision thing is pretty goofy.
It might ease minds to know that at the Council of Constance, which ended the great Western schism when three men claimed to be Pope, those present were divided by language group, with each group having one vote in the election of the new Pope. Since all the cardinals had been appointed by one or another of the three, they weren't the ones who voted; the nations did. Ever since, whenever a Pope has seemed seriously ill, any council in session has been closed so as not to present the dilemna of whether the council or the cardinals should elect the next Pope.
> sessions of similar style to the synod of synodality, in which participants sit at round tables of 10 or so participants
Interesting. I wonder who decides which participants sit at what table (if the method is something other than randomly generated)... in these fraught modern times, I suppose it's possible to use AI both to generate seating charts (as though for weddings) and to simulate the spread of ideas (as though for germs) so that a person could automatically generate a chart that they imagine will have some desired result (though it seems to me this could quite easily be defeated by a determined effort far in advance to get cardinals to actually know one another socially.)
Actually laughed out loud, and I rarely do when I am alone. Thanks.
"one proposed change would limit general congregations to the cardinals eligible to participate in the conclave election — those under 80 years of age."
Talk about stacking the deck!
Regarding restricting access of elderly cardinals to conclaves: Is this really such a big innovation? It kind of makes sense to me that if cardinals over 80 aren't considered mentally competent to vote they shouldn't be expected to attend. This does free them from the burden of traveling, which becomes more significant the more international cardinals you have.
Cynically, and off topic, I don't know why we have retirement ages in the Church from anything. I don't see where Our Lord said that you get to rest from spiritual labor before death, and I don't see how clerics retiring when they begin to feel frail would produce benefit in the life of the Church or in their own lives. I can't know the hearts of others, but I know that outside of sacred vocations, plans to retire lead to decreased engagement both before and after retirement. This is fine in engineering, and maybe this is fine if the episcopate is a management role, but holy orders were not established by Christ as a management role. They were established as a ministry, and if my memory serves, the phrase "you are a priest forever, in the line of Melchizedek" is commonly understood to apply to all priests ordained under the New Testament. If the priesthood and episcopate have turned into an exhausting management nightmare, should we maybe try to fix the problem rather than ameliorating the symptoms? Laity would be far better equipped to produce the financial reports and sign the checks than to preach and pretend to concelebrate, for instance, if we feel the need to draw them deeper into parish life. I find great beauty in watching an old priest say Mass.
Cardinals over the age of 80 aren't allowed to vote. They are allowed to speak to the electors before the conclave.
Noting how burdensome travel becomes as the cardinals get older is a good point.
Any retired priest I've seen is saying Masses, either helping with a busy Sunday schedule or filling in while the pastor goes on retreat or takes a family vacation. I don't think ending their priestly duties is the objective. Cherishing our elders is respectful, and letting younger and more exuberant priests take on the yoke of pastoring is fair.
Isn't a major problem that the Cardinals don't know each other that well as it is? I can't imagine throwing in a bunch of laity and religious into the situation. Wouldn't a better reform be to make the number of electors smaller?
The constant news that comes out (seemingly every week) about Pope Francis' increasing efforts to change as many things as possible as quickly as possible make my head swim.
I want to pray for the Pope and to respect & honor his office, but he makes it so difficult.
On the other hand, I just can't shake the thought and desire that the best thing would be for this pontificate to end soon....before he & his henchmen can do more long term damage to the Church.
Lord protect your Church....and bring us a holy pope who doesn't seek to change everything to fit the modern, secular zeitgeist. 🙏🏻
"Senior Roman clergy have told The Pillar that there have also been rumors that Pope Francis has considered the idea of inviting lay people to participate in general congregations..."
So this time we will have to be worried about the influence of a "Lay" mafia.
Seriously though, getting lay people involved means letting governments and wealthy private interests involved. That's who the "lay people" "they" (meaning the team Francis clique) pick will work for ultimately. Very short sighted idea which inclines the church to dependence on the world rather than independence.
The short list of a lay papal electors has been leaked: Megan Rapinoe, Alex Soros, Whoopi Goldberg, Xi Jinping, Hunter Biden, Elton John, Chelsea Clinton and Madonna Ciccone. Don Novello was initially penciled in but was disqualified for being over 80.