Let’s be honest: for French Catholics (and Jews, too), it’s now a matter of survival. Who among us hasn’t already experienced an attack by Islamists? This is why we care about borders. Our far right, unlike the American one, is reasonable. We are trying to protect ourselves from sharia, not from fellow Catholics (Latin American migrants).
Let’s be honest: for French Catholics (and Jews, too), it’s now a matter of survival. Who among us hasn’t already experienced an attack by Islamists? This is why we care about borders. Our far right, unlike the American one, is reasonable. We are trying to protect ourselves from sharia, not from fellow Catholics (Latin American migrants).
There's a lot more to the illegal immigration/border issue in the US than "protect[ion] from fellow Catholics (Latin American migrants). And plenty of dangerous actors, including Islamists have been crossing that border as well. Your characterization is uninformed - and offensive.
Have you had to decide whether or not to leave Easter Mass with your children because there was a direct bomb threat? I have. It has never happened to us, however, in the U.S.--only in France. What I want to see here, in the U.S., is more Catholics who are concerned about their fellow Catholics, who are looking for a better way of life. Yes, borders are important in the U.S., too. But what we face at them is NOT the same thing. Americans have an opportunity--Latinos. The French have a threat--Islamists. Americans live in the most prosperous, most powerful, most just country in the world. And one of the most beautiful countries! But we're not grateful for what we have, we just see problems. When they are opportunities.
Did you know the majority of those crossing the US Southern Border are not even Latin Americans anymore? Large groups of single (no families) military-age males from Africa, Turkey, and East Asia.
And the attrition rate of Catholic immigrants is horrendous. Most of the parents already didn’t have strong connections to the Church, but it’s long been the rule that a Latino migrant’s kids will 120% abandon the Catholic Faith.
You’re commenting like one of those self-righteous euros who thinks they’re so much more enlightened than “those stupid ignorant Americans” yet fails to realize you have fallen into all the same traps. You clearly know little about the political/cultural/anthropologic/economic/ situation in the USA.
Let's split the difference - -my comment alluded to Matthew's on the nature of those crossing our borders. Many potentially bad actors from a variety of unfriendly nations are taking advantage of this moment. Security is lax. God help us, we could indeed face exactly that bomb threat Dr. B mentions. We are not just hating on Catholics from Latin America when we say "Police the borders!"
And Dr. B has a point ... As to the Latin American "opportunity", I work in the Southwest, in diocesan parish faith formation. I am SURROUNDED by passionate and very attached 2nd and 3rd generation Latinos who want nothing more than to work for the Church in some ministry capacity. Dr. B is correct in saying they are open to catechesis and their sense of belonging to the Church is very "thick". It is certainly not true that "120% abandon the Catholic faith" but the demographic decline is similar in both Anglo and Spanish communities. In my diocese when the Bishop says: "I want all catechists to get certified - the Latinos rush to obey. And the Anglos yawn." So, yeah.
Anecdotes do not disprove trends. Given the numbers of Latino Americans who’ve immigrated to the US since the 80s (~50 million says Pew Research), weekly Mass attendance is still in the gutter, sacraments are still down, and less than 1/3 of Catholics believe in the Real Presence. Latino Immigrants were once touted in 90s/00s as the thing that would save American Catholicism. That turned out to be total bunk.
I’m glad you have some vibrant communities. But much like here in the upper Midwest (where large numbers of Latino immigrants have settled) the few small enclaves of Latinos with vibrant and strong faiths are surrounded by innumerable masses of apostatized Latinos who are just as much only-vaguely-culturally-catholic as any other ethnic group here.
Agreed. Anecdotes are far too often used to avoid hard truths. I acknowledged demographic decline in both Anglo and Spanish communities - which has greatly contributed to the massive closures in many upper midwest and northeastern dioceses. Nevertheless - you asserted that 120% of Latinos apostasize. I'll take your hyperbole and raise you an anecdote. :)
“Did you know the majority of those crossing the US Southern Border are not even Latin Americans anymore? Large groups of single (no families) military-age males from Africa, Turkey, and East Asia.”
This is incredibly false. The number of illegal immigrants from Mexico has fallen - replaced mostly by people from Central and South America.
Your allusion to “military-aged men” is pure scaremongering. This population has always been over represented among illegal immigrants because they are young men coming in hopes of working to support the very families you assume do not exist.
The border is a troubling and complicated issue but the U.S is not under attack or being invaded. Falsely claiming otherwise is irresponsible and uncharitable. This seems to be contrary to the situation in parts of Europe.
Let’s be honest: for French Catholics (and Jews, too), it’s now a matter of survival. Who among us hasn’t already experienced an attack by Islamists? This is why we care about borders. Our far right, unlike the American one, is reasonable. We are trying to protect ourselves from sharia, not from fellow Catholics (Latin American migrants).
Written by someone that thinks outsiders don't understand what is happening in Frace but thinks he knows what is happening in the US
There's a lot more to the illegal immigration/border issue in the US than "protect[ion] from fellow Catholics (Latin American migrants). And plenty of dangerous actors, including Islamists have been crossing that border as well. Your characterization is uninformed - and offensive.
Have you had to decide whether or not to leave Easter Mass with your children because there was a direct bomb threat? I have. It has never happened to us, however, in the U.S.--only in France. What I want to see here, in the U.S., is more Catholics who are concerned about their fellow Catholics, who are looking for a better way of life. Yes, borders are important in the U.S., too. But what we face at them is NOT the same thing. Americans have an opportunity--Latinos. The French have a threat--Islamists. Americans live in the most prosperous, most powerful, most just country in the world. And one of the most beautiful countries! But we're not grateful for what we have, we just see problems. When they are opportunities.
You clearly do not have any exposure to daily life in the American Southwest or in any major urban city in the United States.
I teach a course on Catholicism to Latino college students in Denver. They are so open to catechesis. Let’s pray for each other.
Did you know the majority of those crossing the US Southern Border are not even Latin Americans anymore? Large groups of single (no families) military-age males from Africa, Turkey, and East Asia.
And the attrition rate of Catholic immigrants is horrendous. Most of the parents already didn’t have strong connections to the Church, but it’s long been the rule that a Latino migrant’s kids will 120% abandon the Catholic Faith.
You’re commenting like one of those self-righteous euros who thinks they’re so much more enlightened than “those stupid ignorant Americans” yet fails to realize you have fallen into all the same traps. You clearly know little about the political/cultural/anthropologic/economic/ situation in the USA.
Let's split the difference - -my comment alluded to Matthew's on the nature of those crossing our borders. Many potentially bad actors from a variety of unfriendly nations are taking advantage of this moment. Security is lax. God help us, we could indeed face exactly that bomb threat Dr. B mentions. We are not just hating on Catholics from Latin America when we say "Police the borders!"
And Dr. B has a point ... As to the Latin American "opportunity", I work in the Southwest, in diocesan parish faith formation. I am SURROUNDED by passionate and very attached 2nd and 3rd generation Latinos who want nothing more than to work for the Church in some ministry capacity. Dr. B is correct in saying they are open to catechesis and their sense of belonging to the Church is very "thick". It is certainly not true that "120% abandon the Catholic faith" but the demographic decline is similar in both Anglo and Spanish communities. In my diocese when the Bishop says: "I want all catechists to get certified - the Latinos rush to obey. And the Anglos yawn." So, yeah.
Anecdotes do not disprove trends. Given the numbers of Latino Americans who’ve immigrated to the US since the 80s (~50 million says Pew Research), weekly Mass attendance is still in the gutter, sacraments are still down, and less than 1/3 of Catholics believe in the Real Presence. Latino Immigrants were once touted in 90s/00s as the thing that would save American Catholicism. That turned out to be total bunk.
I’m glad you have some vibrant communities. But much like here in the upper Midwest (where large numbers of Latino immigrants have settled) the few small enclaves of Latinos with vibrant and strong faiths are surrounded by innumerable masses of apostatized Latinos who are just as much only-vaguely-culturally-catholic as any other ethnic group here.
Agreed. Anecdotes are far too often used to avoid hard truths. I acknowledged demographic decline in both Anglo and Spanish communities - which has greatly contributed to the massive closures in many upper midwest and northeastern dioceses. Nevertheless - you asserted that 120% of Latinos apostasize. I'll take your hyperbole and raise you an anecdote. :)
“Did you know the majority of those crossing the US Southern Border are not even Latin Americans anymore? Large groups of single (no families) military-age males from Africa, Turkey, and East Asia.”
This is incredibly false. The number of illegal immigrants from Mexico has fallen - replaced mostly by people from Central and South America.
Your allusion to “military-aged men” is pure scaremongering. This population has always been over represented among illegal immigrants because they are young men coming in hopes of working to support the very families you assume do not exist.
The border is a troubling and complicated issue but the U.S is not under attack or being invaded. Falsely claiming otherwise is irresponsible and uncharitable. This seems to be contrary to the situation in parts of Europe.
https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/11/16/what-we-know-about-unauthorized-immigrants-living-in-the-us/