My COO here in Germany recently said his family switched to Protestant , „Not because of any bad experience , but because we happen to attend the activities of the Protestant community more, so it seems better.“ To him, it was either „this club or that club“…
Yes, the question is where are they going. Unfortunately many German bishops seem determined to say, "Heaven of course!" In which case, what's the point?
--> Only 38 ordinations in 2023!!! I live in Louisiana, which is about 20 times smaller than Germany. Just guessing, but we probably ordained +/- 15 men last year, a small number, but nearly half as many as Germany.
I have started to wonder again how it is possible to say "you must pay a tax or you will be denied sacraments"; it makes perfect sense for someone who has apostatized in public to be denied communion, or the sacrament of matrimony, or a Mass of Christian Burial in a cathedral unless they have made some sign of repentance prior to death, and it would make sense to deny their child baptism until they promise to raise him in the faith; and it is also reasonable to assign a penance (historically even a public penance) to someone who repents of public apostasy, such as a barefoot pilgrimage or whatever, but to directly connect absolution to money alone rather than penance more generally (your public penance is to resume paying the church tax and then we will admit you to the confessional) seems like a regrettable innovation even if it were not the case that centuries ago the Church (in Ireland, I think) flipped the script and opted to absolve first and expect penance to be completed after. Perhaps I am overlooking something.
1) +Bätzing is absolutely correct that the German Church is in a comprehensive crisis; but doubles down on the need for the "synodal way" as a fix. The Germans, like everyone else, are seekers of the truth and holiness, and the German church leadership is not providing that, but doubling down on the Zeitgeist.
2) The Kirchensteuer has made the German Church the richest in the world; however, it has also arguably made it the most bureaucratic and autocratic Church as well...you are technically excommunicated if you do not pay your taxes.
I bet if you just looked at the Mass-going Catholic population, the priest to people ratio would be much healthier. This is what people forget - the only Catholics who want to see a priest on a regular basis are the ones in church on Sundays.
I bet it would. The priest/Sunday-Mass-attendee ratio has remained fairly stable in America since ( I think) the 1960s or earlier.
The trouble is, the priest/parish ratio (and the Sunday-Mass-attendee/parish ratio) has been shrinking dramatically over the same time period. The actual goal of the Church is not just to serve those Catholics who want to be served, but to save and sanctify souls. Can't do that if they don't show up.
Vatican II made it pretty clear that evangelization was our job, rather than the clergy. So we need to lift our game and make Catholicism so appealing as a visible way of life that people are really drawn to God through us.
I don't know about you, but for me to try to do this, I need holy priests, not necessarily more priests.
While I agree that evangelization is our job, I don't think that means it isn't the clergy's job. The original evangelists were all bishops, and there's a fair number of priest Saints who evangelized - St. Francis de Sales spent a good chunk of his priesthood mainly talking to Protestants.
Heartily agree on quality over quantity. My point was that the number of priests will naturally rise if the number of Sunday Mass attendees rises. I suspect that the holiness of priests will also naturally rise if the holiness of the laity rises. There are Seven Sisters groups trying to help with that.
There are a few organizations dedicated to evangelization. One of them is the Legion of Mary (you might check if there's a group in your area), and it works on a backbone of auxiliary members who contribute nothing but prayer. Paul plants, Apollos waters, God gives the growth. I think a recent pew survey found that only about 20% of Catholics pray daily. We can't make Catholicism an appealing way of life if we aren't actually living it.
On the one hand, it's sad that people are leaving the Church; on the other hand, at least they have the integrity to do so, assuming that the majority of them do not agree with Church teaching.
I don’t think most of these folks are joining other denominations.
The ever popular and growing denomination of "None."
My COO here in Germany recently said his family switched to Protestant , „Not because of any bad experience , but because we happen to attend the activities of the Protestant community more, so it seems better.“ To him, it was either „this club or that club“…
Yes, the question is where are they going. Unfortunately many German bishops seem determined to say, "Heaven of course!" In which case, what's the point?
--> Only 38 ordinations in 2023!!! I live in Louisiana, which is about 20 times smaller than Germany. Just guessing, but we probably ordained +/- 15 men last year, a small number, but nearly half as many as Germany.
--> A half-century ago, Cardinal Ratzinger (a German) foresaw this, saying about the future Church: "𝘚𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘯𝘰 𝘭𝘰𝘯𝘨𝘦𝘳 𝘣𝘦 𝘢𝘣𝘭𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘪𝘯𝘩𝘢𝘣𝘪𝘵 𝘮𝘢𝘯𝘺 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘦𝘥𝘪𝘧𝘪𝘤𝘦𝘴 𝘴𝘩𝘦 𝘣𝘶𝘪𝘭𝘵 𝘪𝘯 𝘱𝘳𝘰𝘴𝘱𝘦𝘳𝘪𝘵𝘺. 𝘈𝘴 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘯𝘶𝘮𝘣𝘦𝘳 𝘰𝘧 𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘢𝘥𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦𝘯𝘵𝘴 𝘥𝘪𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘪𝘴𝘩𝘦𝘴 ... 𝘐𝘵 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘮𝘢𝘬𝘦 𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘱𝘰𝘰𝘳 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘤𝘢𝘶𝘴𝘦 𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘵𝘰 𝘣𝘦𝘤𝘰𝘮𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘊𝘩𝘶𝘳𝘤𝘩 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘮𝘦𝘦𝘬 ... 𝘉𝘶𝘵 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘵𝘳𝘪𝘢𝘭 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘴 𝘴𝘪𝘧𝘵𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘪𝘴 𝘱𝘢𝘴𝘵, 𝘢 𝘨𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘵 𝘱𝘰𝘸𝘦𝘳 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘧𝘭𝘰𝘸 𝘧𝘳𝘰𝘮 𝘢 𝘮𝘰𝘳𝘦 𝘴𝘱𝘪𝘳𝘪𝘵𝘶𝘢𝘭𝘪𝘻𝘦𝘥 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘪𝘮𝘱𝘭𝘪𝘧𝘪𝘦𝘥 𝘊𝘩𝘶𝘳𝘤𝘩 ... 𝘈𝘯𝘥 𝘴𝘰 𝘪𝘵 𝘴𝘦𝘦𝘮𝘴 𝘤𝘦𝘳𝘵𝘢𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘰 𝘮𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘊𝘩𝘶𝘳𝘤𝘩 𝘪𝘴 𝘧𝘢𝘤𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘷𝘦𝘳𝘺 𝘩𝘢𝘳𝘥 𝘵𝘪𝘮𝘦𝘴. 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘳𝘦𝘢𝘭 𝘤𝘳𝘪𝘴𝘪𝘴 𝘩𝘢𝘴 𝘴𝘤𝘢𝘳𝘤𝘦𝘭𝘺 𝘣𝘦𝘨𝘶𝘯. 𝘞𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘩𝘢𝘷𝘦 𝘵𝘰 𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘵 𝘰𝘯 𝘵𝘦𝘳𝘳𝘪𝘧𝘪𝘤 𝘶𝘱𝘩𝘦𝘢𝘷𝘢𝘭𝘴 ... 𝘣𝘶𝘵 𝘴𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘦𝘯𝘫𝘰𝘺 𝘢 𝘧𝘳𝘦𝘴𝘩 𝘣𝘭𝘰𝘴𝘴𝘰𝘮𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘣𝘦 𝘴𝘦𝘦𝘯 𝘢𝘴 𝘮𝘢𝘯’𝘴 𝘩𝘰𝘮𝘦, 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘳𝘦 𝘩𝘦 𝘸𝘪𝘭𝘭 𝘧𝘪𝘯𝘥 𝘭𝘪𝘧𝘦 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘩𝘰𝘱𝘦 𝘣𝘦𝘺𝘰𝘯𝘥 𝘥𝘦𝘢𝘵𝘩."
(From 𝘍𝘢𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘍𝘶𝘵𝘶𝘳𝘦, 1969)
I have started to wonder again how it is possible to say "you must pay a tax or you will be denied sacraments"; it makes perfect sense for someone who has apostatized in public to be denied communion, or the sacrament of matrimony, or a Mass of Christian Burial in a cathedral unless they have made some sign of repentance prior to death, and it would make sense to deny their child baptism until they promise to raise him in the faith; and it is also reasonable to assign a penance (historically even a public penance) to someone who repents of public apostasy, such as a barefoot pilgrimage or whatever, but to directly connect absolution to money alone rather than penance more generally (your public penance is to resume paying the church tax and then we will admit you to the confessional) seems like a regrettable innovation even if it were not the case that centuries ago the Church (in Ireland, I think) flipped the script and opted to absolve first and expect penance to be completed after. Perhaps I am overlooking something.
The German bishops just need to listen to the Lord. “Sell all you have and follow me”
A couple of thoughts:
1) +Bätzing is absolutely correct that the German Church is in a comprehensive crisis; but doubles down on the need for the "synodal way" as a fix. The Germans, like everyone else, are seekers of the truth and holiness, and the German church leadership is not providing that, but doubling down on the Zeitgeist.
2) The Kirchensteuer has made the German Church the richest in the world; however, it has also arguably made it the most bureaucratic and autocratic Church as well...you are technically excommunicated if you do not pay your taxes.
A fish rots from the head down.
With a name like that serving in an abuse-torn diocese, they should really consider replacing Cologne vicar general Msgr. Guido Assmann….
I bet if you just looked at the Mass-going Catholic population, the priest to people ratio would be much healthier. This is what people forget - the only Catholics who want to see a priest on a regular basis are the ones in church on Sundays.
I bet it would. The priest/Sunday-Mass-attendee ratio has remained fairly stable in America since ( I think) the 1960s or earlier.
The trouble is, the priest/parish ratio (and the Sunday-Mass-attendee/parish ratio) has been shrinking dramatically over the same time period. The actual goal of the Church is not just to serve those Catholics who want to be served, but to save and sanctify souls. Can't do that if they don't show up.
Vatican II made it pretty clear that evangelization was our job, rather than the clergy. So we need to lift our game and make Catholicism so appealing as a visible way of life that people are really drawn to God through us.
I don't know about you, but for me to try to do this, I need holy priests, not necessarily more priests.
While I agree that evangelization is our job, I don't think that means it isn't the clergy's job. The original evangelists were all bishops, and there's a fair number of priest Saints who evangelized - St. Francis de Sales spent a good chunk of his priesthood mainly talking to Protestants.
Heartily agree on quality over quantity. My point was that the number of priests will naturally rise if the number of Sunday Mass attendees rises. I suspect that the holiness of priests will also naturally rise if the holiness of the laity rises. There are Seven Sisters groups trying to help with that.
There are a few organizations dedicated to evangelization. One of them is the Legion of Mary (you might check if there's a group in your area), and it works on a backbone of auxiliary members who contribute nothing but prayer. Paul plants, Apollos waters, God gives the growth. I think a recent pew survey found that only about 20% of Catholics pray daily. We can't make Catholicism an appealing way of life if we aren't actually living it.
Synodal Way = mass exit from the Church.
On the one hand, it's sad that people are leaving the Church; on the other hand, at least they have the integrity to do so, assuming that the majority of them do not agree with Church teaching.
With the direction +Batzing and Stetter-Karp want to take the Church in Germany, perhaps it’s best it were to disappear?