This is the best spin on how to approach Greenlanders themselves I’ve seen. When put this way, I’m more open to taking it seriously and considering it. Also, I hope everyone reads that link to the article about Danish doctors forcibly implanting IUDs in Greenlander girls; that is truly horrific and has had very long-lasting consequences for the girls involved.
It's rather difficult to make a distinction between what was done to them, and systematic rape with a foreign object. Except that it also was contraceptive.
We should pray for the administration's success, but we should not allow the administration to define success on its own terms. Organizations, like individuals, answer to a Higher Authority. Let that One define the terms of success.
I hate to take the wind out Ed's Manifest Destiny sails, but 56,583 people * $5 million/person = $283 billion, not million. This is not out of the realm of possibility for the government that spent $6 *trillion* in 2023, but it's hardly as economical as it was made out to be.
Also, if you're going to title your post 'Let it linger', the least you could do is link to the Cranberries song (RIP Dolores O'Riordan) which prominently features the line: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6Kspj3OO0s
It's similar to when the English tossed the red/white "Cross of St. Patrick" saltiness onto the Union Jack in 1801 to try to reinforce the whole "Ireland is an integral part of Great Britain" nonsense. Note how well it won over the population. Someday, God willing, we'll see the Union Jack with without a red "X" on it.
I liked the article on Greenland. There is a Chinese, Canadian, and Russian push for Northern Sea Routes right now. Then there are the minerals...
There is a lady who does You Tube videos about Greenland. Beautiful place. Top Notch videos. Nice people...I would be proud to know them as US Citizens...
"At the risk of being presumptive, who turns down $5 million and an American passport?"
I would turn down $5 billion and an American passport. I'm Canadian and proud of it. If any of my fellow citizens want to live in a republic, I'll help them pack.
Well said! Looking at the map, if Greenland is going to join up with any New World country, shouldn't it be Canada? How marvellously annoyed Trump would be if that happened.
I’m Canadian too. Hard to be proud of a country that has zero restrictions on abortion, that euthanizes poor people, and whose PM describes the arson of over 100 churches as “understandable.”
I’m VERY curious as to what it is about Canada that evokes so much pride in you that you would turn down $5 billion just to continue to be Canadian/not be American.
Totally cool if you want to keep your ideas to yourself. I just said I was curious. Sorry if it came across as snarky because it wasn’t meant that way.
Having once had to pretend to be Canadian, I don't particularly desire to repeat the experience (although I'm sure my fellow Pillar reader Canadians are lovely), but heck, I'd change my tune for $5mil and an extra passport
Maybe it's just me, but I think that bribing a generation to surrender their independence and that of all their descendants is morally outrageous. (You may say that the Greenlanders currently come under Denmark, but it's generally agreed that they could opt for independence from Denmark if they chose, whereas secession from the USA is not allowed.) This is particularly the case when you think you are doing a 'good deal' - ie, planning to make more by exploiting their national resources than you have paid them. And possibly in an environmentally irresponsible, 'drill baby drill' way.
Americans should think of it the other way, suppose Canada came into large amounts of money and offered them all a bribe to join Canada. Would they really say yes if they could feast on potage for the rest of their days?
Fantastic analysis on the Russian church and its patriarch. Please file that in a very accessible place as it can be potentially used as a template for future spiritual devotion by [insert USCCB member name here] to Trump. Ya never know, Ed.
Not voting for Trump is essentially a vote for pro abortion Biden when in actuality whether you voted for Biden or not. I am going to put this to prayer as to whether I want to cancel my subscription here. I hought this was mainly an orthodox publication. I am sorry to hear about this, distressed, in fact. Even makes me angry.
No, not voting for Trump was not a vote for Biden. That is not how that works. And being orthodox, faithful Catholic does not depend on voting for Trump.
Another point to add to Rebecca’s reply (which I agree with) is that the prayerful calculus would also be impacted on where one lives & votes. An individual voting in a known “swing state” versus one that consistently goes for one party or another in great numbers have very different calculations. In this scenario, Ed had mentioned he lives in the Archdiocese of Washington (he mentioned Cardinal McElroy is his new bishop) than that’s either MD (always blue) or DC (also always blue).
The position that is orthodox (which, of course, comes from Greek for "correct teaching") would be is that which the Church in fact magisterially teaches--which, as JD implies earlier in this thread, does not align with what the original comment claims to be 'orthodox'.
I wonder sometimes how long it will take for the wider Church to recognize as a heresy the teaching that members of the Church are only validly so if their political affiliation and activities are aligned to a particular secular party or politician or movement. It strikes me as some kind of amalgamation of the heresies of Donatism and Americanism (with a splash of Gallicanism for flavor, which is not a heresy so much as a persuasion), and we in the US are far from the only ones afflicted by it. In some places, the claim is to the political 'right'; in others to the political 'left', but everywhere it is present the heresy sows discord and alienation, and ruptures relationships to the Church.
And, as with most heresies, those who have been led astray and hold these heterodoxies are the hardest to convince that they are not in fact orthodox.
Keep in mind, King David was a murderer and Augustine was hell on wheels for 30 years. Trump is a wounded warrior. What would our world be like in 4 years if the Left took over??!!
Every Democrat who came to my door before the election, however,-- and there were *many* -- claimed that not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump. In turn I exhorted them to contact all of their preferred politicians to explain what age they think a baby should not be aborted at (since they almost uniformly told me "no one ever aborts a baby past the second trimester (that would be awful!) and anyone who told you so is lying". ALMOST uniformly. We ought to pray especially for the guy who told me honestly that he supports abortion to any gestational age and knows someone who aborted a baby very late and "it was the hardest decision she ever made" (oh no the baby might die so I need to kill it first) ugh I wanted to throw up but I tried to reason with him and explain about hospice and nothing made a dent in his attitude and by the end I was shouting at him and his colleague to get off my property.) But I expected they were all not going to bother doing that, because they believe it never happens, and they're wrong.
I very much like the idea of going to the Greenlanders to acquire Greenland, rather than to the Danes. Of course, if the Danes refuse to allow them self-determination, Trump could then be truthfully accused of inciting an insurrection.
I'm not so convinced of the wisdom of giving people an enormous amount of money for doing so. Large quantities of money for doing practically nothing tends to have detrimental effects on people, economies, and societies. Perhaps, instead, something like the Alaska Permanent Fund for Greenlanders, except apply it to any kind of earth-bound natural resource, and give them a higher percent than Alaska gets? And then promise to ensure they have electricity year-round...
I mean, it wouldn't be the first time he was accused of inciting a resurrection. Plus, I feel like the diplomatic pressure on Denmark would rise quickly if Greenland wanted to vote to secede. The history is not on Denmark's side, apparently.
I said the first *true* accusation, but it was rather tongue-in-cheek.
The Catalans in Spain have been trying to separate since the 1800s, possibly the 1600s, and they held a vote to separate in 2017, which the Spanish declared illegal, followed by imprisoning the Catalan government ministers who led it. I didn't notice much international diplomatic pressure to honor the vote, or to hold another. I've only noticed diplomatic pressure supporting separatist movements in Africa and Asia - never for those in advanced Western nations.
I am somewhat suspicious that the diplomatic pressure in the case of Greenland would fall almost entirely along the fault line of pro- or anti- United States. Especially given it would not make Greenland independent, but merely a territory or state of a different nation.
American Trumpist Conservatism and orthodox Catholicism are not the same thing. There are third parties that align with Catholic social teaching far better than either party and are actually pro-life. Trump even betrayed his party’s pro-life voting block
Unfortunately those third parties often have major flaws (especially so if we're talking Libertarians instead of the Solidarity folks). Also, I don't think the article said that modern conservatism is the same as orthodox Catholicism. No political party in the US is or likely will be any time soon. It is the closer of the major parties, of course.
I meant this to be a response to a comment above where someone was upset about Ed not voting for Trump, claiming he wasn’t orthodox, and I stupidly clicked the wrong button. Not much I can do about that
"Sell hard for the big day, then push for people to reload to cover the whole season." Why can't these failed capitalists get that through their thick heads?
This is the best spin on how to approach Greenlanders themselves I’ve seen. When put this way, I’m more open to taking it seriously and considering it. Also, I hope everyone reads that link to the article about Danish doctors forcibly implanting IUDs in Greenlander girls; that is truly horrific and has had very long-lasting consequences for the girls involved.
That is a shocking article. Inhuman.
It's rather difficult to make a distinction between what was done to them, and systematic rape with a foreign object. Except that it also was contraceptive.
All for their own good, I'm sure.
We should pray for the administration's success, but we should not allow the administration to define success on its own terms. Organizations, like individuals, answer to a Higher Authority. Let that One define the terms of success.
I hate to take the wind out Ed's Manifest Destiny sails, but 56,583 people * $5 million/person = $283 billion, not million. This is not out of the realm of possibility for the government that spent $6 *trillion* in 2023, but it's hardly as economical as it was made out to be.
Also, if you're going to title your post 'Let it linger', the least you could do is link to the Cranberries song (RIP Dolores O'Riordan) which prominently features the line: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6Kspj3OO0s
I was expecting The Cranberries too
https://youtu.be/y0X0ZYbnHxA?si=dqKCcrrLa3XAI_-X
I’m so glad you mentioned the Cranberries! I didn’t see your comment before I posted below!
Ugh, the cranberries suffered, or rather i suffered, from their being chronically overplayed in my youth.
I loved the Cranberries in my college years but, yes, Zombie became a zombie.
Indeed, it says something poor about us that three editors didn't catch that. but its amended with an editors note now
Ed, I was so sure you’d end your post with this!
https://open.spotify.com/track/3HHehSGzW9dhs2V7Sod4jX?si=3t62Ekp-R6KmvxeBDJBVUw&context=spotify%3Asearch%3Alinger%2Bthe%2Bcranberries
(Darn, I don’t know how to post the Cranberries song “Linger” directly!)
"Apostolic Prefecture of the Arctic Pole, which has to be the coolest title in Church history."
"Coolest" — har, har.
Lord, have mercy on your Church in Russia.
It's similar to when the English tossed the red/white "Cross of St. Patrick" saltiness onto the Union Jack in 1801 to try to reinforce the whole "Ireland is an integral part of Great Britain" nonsense. Note how well it won over the population. Someday, God willing, we'll see the Union Jack with without a red "X" on it.
That Vladimir Putin icon is appalling.
Lest anyone else complain ‘crappy modern art in Catholic Churches’… the grass is not always greener on the orthodox side.
I liked the article on Greenland. There is a Chinese, Canadian, and Russian push for Northern Sea Routes right now. Then there are the minerals...
There is a lady who does You Tube videos about Greenland. Beautiful place. Top Notch videos. Nice people...I would be proud to know them as US Citizens...
I don't think they should be a state, though. A territory sounds like a good idea.
"At the risk of being presumptive, who turns down $5 million and an American passport?"
I would turn down $5 billion and an American passport. I'm Canadian and proud of it. If any of my fellow citizens want to live in a republic, I'll help them pack.
Well said! Looking at the map, if Greenland is going to join up with any New World country, shouldn't it be Canada? How marvellously annoyed Trump would be if that happened.
Everyone should love their own country, even Canadians.
Should?
Should in an ideal world.
I’m Canadian too. Hard to be proud of a country that has zero restrictions on abortion, that euthanizes poor people, and whose PM describes the arson of over 100 churches as “understandable.”
There is a difference between being proud of your country and proud of its government. The latter is only a requirement in dictatorships.
Disclosure: I'm a card-carrying federal Conservative so I'm definitely not proud of the current PM.
I’m VERY curious as to what it is about Canada that evokes so much pride in you that you would turn down $5 billion just to continue to be Canadian/not be American.
I don't think I have to justify my desire to remain Canadian. Patriotism is a given, and it's a virtue
Totally cool if you want to keep your ideas to yourself. I just said I was curious. Sorry if it came across as snarky because it wasn’t meant that way.
Having once had to pretend to be Canadian, I don't particularly desire to repeat the experience (although I'm sure my fellow Pillar reader Canadians are lovely), but heck, I'd change my tune for $5mil and an extra passport
"Esau selleth his byrthright for a messe of potage"
Have you seen much potage 5 million bucks buys?
Maybe it's just me, but I think that bribing a generation to surrender their independence and that of all their descendants is morally outrageous. (You may say that the Greenlanders currently come under Denmark, but it's generally agreed that they could opt for independence from Denmark if they chose, whereas secession from the USA is not allowed.) This is particularly the case when you think you are doing a 'good deal' - ie, planning to make more by exploiting their national resources than you have paid them. And possibly in an environmentally irresponsible, 'drill baby drill' way.
Americans should think of it the other way, suppose Canada came into large amounts of money and offered them all a bribe to join Canada. Would they really say yes if they could feast on potage for the rest of their days?
Hmm. I'd be tempted!
And Ed starts a side business in heraldry….
Fantastic analysis on the Russian church and its patriarch. Please file that in a very accessible place as it can be potentially used as a template for future spiritual devotion by [insert USCCB member name here] to Trump. Ya never know, Ed.
Oh, You
(https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/oh-you)
Nah, the US bishops AFAIK are very unlikely to be tempted to canonize Trump.
Not voting for Trump is essentially a vote for pro abortion Biden when in actuality whether you voted for Biden or not. I am going to put this to prayer as to whether I want to cancel my subscription here. I hought this was mainly an orthodox publication. I am sorry to hear about this, distressed, in fact. Even makes me angry.
No, not voting for Trump was not a vote for Biden. That is not how that works. And being orthodox, faithful Catholic does not depend on voting for Trump.
Another point to add to Rebecca’s reply (which I agree with) is that the prayerful calculus would also be impacted on where one lives & votes. An individual voting in a known “swing state” versus one that consistently goes for one party or another in great numbers have very different calculations. In this scenario, Ed had mentioned he lives in the Archdiocese of Washington (he mentioned Cardinal McElroy is his new bishop) than that’s either MD (always blue) or DC (also always blue).
The Church gives moral guidance on voting which makes clear that "not voting for x" is not the same as "voting for Y."
Mmmmmmmmmm.
The position that is orthodox (which, of course, comes from Greek for "correct teaching") would be is that which the Church in fact magisterially teaches--which, as JD implies earlier in this thread, does not align with what the original comment claims to be 'orthodox'.
I wonder sometimes how long it will take for the wider Church to recognize as a heresy the teaching that members of the Church are only validly so if their political affiliation and activities are aligned to a particular secular party or politician or movement. It strikes me as some kind of amalgamation of the heresies of Donatism and Americanism (with a splash of Gallicanism for flavor, which is not a heresy so much as a persuasion), and we in the US are far from the only ones afflicted by it. In some places, the claim is to the political 'right'; in others to the political 'left', but everywhere it is present the heresy sows discord and alienation, and ruptures relationships to the Church.
And, as with most heresies, those who have been led astray and hold these heterodoxies are the hardest to convince that they are not in fact orthodox.
I would like The Pillar to stay clear of Politics. Please.
Keep in mind, King David was a murderer and Augustine was hell on wheels for 30 years. Trump is a wounded warrior. What would our world be like in 4 years if the Left took over??!!
Every Democrat who came to my door before the election, however,-- and there were *many* -- claimed that not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump. In turn I exhorted them to contact all of their preferred politicians to explain what age they think a baby should not be aborted at (since they almost uniformly told me "no one ever aborts a baby past the second trimester (that would be awful!) and anyone who told you so is lying". ALMOST uniformly. We ought to pray especially for the guy who told me honestly that he supports abortion to any gestational age and knows someone who aborted a baby very late and "it was the hardest decision she ever made" (oh no the baby might die so I need to kill it first) ugh I wanted to throw up but I tried to reason with him and explain about hospice and nothing made a dent in his attitude and by the end I was shouting at him and his colleague to get off my property.) But I expected they were all not going to bother doing that, because they believe it never happens, and they're wrong.
I very much like the idea of going to the Greenlanders to acquire Greenland, rather than to the Danes. Of course, if the Danes refuse to allow them self-determination, Trump could then be truthfully accused of inciting an insurrection.
I'm not so convinced of the wisdom of giving people an enormous amount of money for doing so. Large quantities of money for doing practically nothing tends to have detrimental effects on people, economies, and societies. Perhaps, instead, something like the Alaska Permanent Fund for Greenlanders, except apply it to any kind of earth-bound natural resource, and give them a higher percent than Alaska gets? And then promise to ensure they have electricity year-round...
I mean, it wouldn't be the first time he was accused of inciting a resurrection. Plus, I feel like the diplomatic pressure on Denmark would rise quickly if Greenland wanted to vote to secede. The history is not on Denmark's side, apparently.
I said the first *true* accusation, but it was rather tongue-in-cheek.
The Catalans in Spain have been trying to separate since the 1800s, possibly the 1600s, and they held a vote to separate in 2017, which the Spanish declared illegal, followed by imprisoning the Catalan government ministers who led it. I didn't notice much international diplomatic pressure to honor the vote, or to hold another. I've only noticed diplomatic pressure supporting separatist movements in Africa and Asia - never for those in advanced Western nations.
I am somewhat suspicious that the diplomatic pressure in the case of Greenland would fall almost entirely along the fault line of pro- or anti- United States. Especially given it would not make Greenland independent, but merely a territory or state of a different nation.
American Trumpist Conservatism and orthodox Catholicism are not the same thing. There are third parties that align with Catholic social teaching far better than either party and are actually pro-life. Trump even betrayed his party’s pro-life voting block
Unfortunately those third parties often have major flaws (especially so if we're talking Libertarians instead of the Solidarity folks). Also, I don't think the article said that modern conservatism is the same as orthodox Catholicism. No political party in the US is or likely will be any time soon. It is the closer of the major parties, of course.
I meant this to be a response to a comment above where someone was upset about Ed not voting for Trump, claiming he wasn’t orthodox, and I stupidly clicked the wrong button. Not much I can do about that
"Sell hard for the big day, then push for people to reload to cover the whole season." Why can't these failed capitalists get that through their thick heads?
"Apostolic Prefecture of the Arctic Pole, which has to be the coolest title in Church history." I'm sorry but was that pun intentional?