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All this information is most welcome, thanks much for the time spent on investigation, but what I really want to know is:

What does Canon law have to say about it?

(Also, but possibly unrelated: when should one take down the Christmas tree/decorations? After the last college football game, perhaps?)

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Depends on your climate. In MN we take dow the exterior ones in June.

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I *think* that the Octave of Christmas/Solemnity of Mary Mother of God is Solemnity and therefore abstinence is exempted under the current code. However, the other days in the octave are not solemnities and are therefore not exempted.

Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday.

Except that in the US, we are required to do some sort of penance on Fridays, not necessarily abstinence. Presumably, whenever the abstinence is not required by the universal code, the penance is not required in the US.

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Which twelve days are the twelve days of Christmas? From December 25 to Jan 6, including both of those days, there are thirteen days.

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I am not an authority but my best guess would say the 12 Days of Christmas, includes Christmas and excludes Epiphany. This is reflective in the traditional calendar which measures what we now mundanely call "ordinary time" as the days after epiphany and days after pentecost. So epiphany essentially starts a new liturgical season.

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Probably one of those occasions when the counting is inclusive and the last day is included but not counted

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If the circumcision was eight days after birth, an octave, was there a separate Dedication ceremony and did it have to happen in the Temple? What about Mary's ritual purification after birth. Did that have to happen in the Temple and was that 40 days after birth? Luke 2:39 says that when they had performed everything according to the law, they returned to Nazareth. When is the "when" that marked the completion of the requirements of the law? How long after the birth did they return to Nazareth?

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Dec 29, 2021·edited Dec 29, 2021

Yes, the circumcision was 8 days after birth (Luke 2:21, according to Jewish custom), but the Presentation (Luke 2: 22-39) is a separate rite. It is the purification of the mother (Mary) 40 days after giving birth (see Leviticus 12: 2-8) and the redemption of the first born son (Exodus 13).

As far as returning to Nazareth, it's hard to say because Luke 2 places it right after the Presentation. Matthew's account makes it sound like the Holy Family was in Bethlehem for a while. My sense, and I could very well be wrong, is that Jesus, Mary, and Joseph stayed in Bethlehem a while and didn't return to Nazareth until they returned from Egypt. Matthew wrote that Herod had boys under two years old killed and it seems limited to the Bethlehem area. Nazareth was a few days travel away, which might have kept them safe if the Holy Family already returned home. So IMO, the chronology was birth, then circumcision, the Presentation, then the Magi visited, followed by the exile in Egypt and the return to Nazareth.

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Are the 8 days in the Octave of Christmas considered, like the Easter Octave, one extended Christmas Day? Is the whole thing a Solemnity? My understanding is that's what the Easter Octave is, bit I couldn't wrong. Thanks for clarifying, and thanks for all your work JD and Ed!

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I tried explaining this all to my RCIA class, and am not sure I did a brilliant job of it; thanks Ed and JD for this much clearer explainer.

... that said, I am mystified as to why you chose to link to a video by the group I like to refer to as Isopentatonix when masterpieces such as this Indiana-based a capella rendition exist on the Internet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2kYEK-pxs_A

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Thanks for the great explainer!

There was one confusing part, though: "That feast [on February 2nd] commemorates the presentation of the Lord in the Temple, which, you might recall, many Eastern Christians actually remember on Epiphany." The anteceding paragraph to which, I assume, this statement makes reference seems to say, however, that Eastern Christians remember the Baptism of Our Lord--not his Presentation--on Epiphany.

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FYI, the North African Church before the Islamic onslaught was never part of the Coptic Church.

North Africa was a Roman province and under the Church of Rome.

The Patriarchate of Alexandria was what we call today "Coptic" and did not extend to North Africa.

North Africa was never under that Patriarchate's jurisdiction, though there might have been churches of the Alexandrian Patriachate in North Africa.

Under Roman "obedience" the Church of North Africa while having variations in ritual was thoroughly Roman as witnessed by the writings of St Augustine of Hippo, the local Council of Hippo (which established the Biblical canon for most of the undivided Church) and the writings of St Cyprian (who lived in what is now Libya and Tunisia).

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In the East the feast of the is Presentation is celebrated exclusively as the entrance of the Lord into the Temple on February 2nd (or it's Julian Calendar equivalent, Feb. 15).

It is called the "Hypapante" (Greek for "Meeting").

In English the feast in the East is called "The Meeting of the Lord." The feast commemorates the meeting of the Lord with His people, in the persons of St Simeon the God-Receiver and St. Anna the Prophetess. It also remembers the Lord entering into His own house where in veiled rites He was worshipped in the Old Testament Temple of Jerusalem.

St. Simeon the God-receiver (as he is known in the Christian East) proclaims the Lord as "...the Light manifested to the gentiles and the glory of the people of Israel."

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Does that mean the Purification of Mary is not observed at all in the East?

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As she was not subject to the Old Law as the one who gave birth to the One Who is God, the giver of the Law and New Covenant Himself, she did not need a purification from the Mosaic prescriptions.

While not included in the feast there are those in the East who believe there was a ritual purification of the All Pure Virgin.

Both are theological opinions and not dogmas or doctrines in the East or West.

As Saint John Chrysostom teaches:

“Do you not see that this sun, whose body is sensible, is corruptible and perishable?…And not it only, but also, earth, sea, and in short all of visible creation has been subjected to futility…[quotes Romans 8]…Therefore, now it is perishable and corruptible, for being in “bondage to decay” is nothing else than being corruptible. Further, if the sun being a corruptible body sends forth its rays everywhere, and approaching mires, defilements and much other such matter, receives no injury to its purity from the converse with bodies, but even withdraws its rays pure again, giving a share of its own virtue to many of the bodies which have welcomed it, and receiving additionally the least bit of filth and defilement, (if that is so) much more, the Sun of righteousness, the Master of the bodiless powers, having come to pure flesh [of Mary], not only has not become defiled, but also made this itself more pure and more holy.”

(Homily on the Nativity, Chapter 6).

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Catholic Emancipation Act of 1782 allowed for Catholic schools and an establishment of a hierarchy

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"can you eat meat on Friday, Dec. 31 — when Fridays are generally regarded as a day of abstinence?"

Huh, I thought that had been done away with outside lent decades ago. Is it different in the US?

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Dec 28, 2023·edited Dec 28, 2023

Fridays are a day of abstinence according to Latin Canon Law. Various local bishops (US included) allow for substituting a rosary, or other pastor-approved penance. There is no option for not doing any penance on Fridays throughout the year - that would be a sin (unless too old, too young, or too sick). The confusion over allowing the substitutions caused many people to think it had been done away with altogether, but that is not the case.

Can. 1250 The days and times of penance for the universal Church are each Friday of the whole year and the season of Lent.

Can. 1251 Abstinence from meat, or from some other food as determined by the Episcopal Conference, is to be observed on all Fridays, unless a solemnity should fall on a Friday. Abstinence and fasting are to be observed on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday.

I've found abstinence from meat to be the simplest penance.

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I was one of them, clearly!

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https://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-year-and-calendar/lent/us-bishops-pastoral-statement-on-penance-and-abstinence is an interesting read (the way it was received by my previous generation, and transmitted to me in my childhood, was different than what the bishops were hoping for, but if we belatedly read that they were hoping we would freely choose to do penance on Fridays and that we would usually choose abstinence from meat as the penance, then there is more of a chance that we will do that going forward.)

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Well, I never knew!!

Thanks.

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Wait, the octave is not related to Jesus’s bris (brit millah). Feast of the circumcision, what happened to you? Cut out of the calendar by the squeamish.

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It has been called by various names, the Circumcision of the Lord, and the Feast of the Holy Name…it was dropped from the NO Calendar and replaced with the feast of the Mother of God on Jan 1.

It was restored to the NO General Calendar in the early 1990’s on Jan 3 as the Holy Name of Jesus, the readings relate to the Circumcision.

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What happened to the feast of the circumcision of Jesus? 8 days after birth.

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My parish priest recently told us in a homily that “The 12 Days of Christmas” was sung as a kind of secret code between Christians when they were being persecuted. Was that one of the disputes about the origin or more likely a stretch?

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A pious fable, often give. With different religious or spiritual meanings for the numbers of peoples, animals and things.

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The song was written in the 1780’s by an Anglican. While there was still persecution of Catholics during that time it was not a song that existed in the height of the English Reformation. Henry VIII, Edward his son and Elizabeth I reigned during the height of the time of the Catholic martyrs…there were some after that time though.

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Thanks for the info!

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thanks. i’m still miffed that Feast of the Circumcission of the Lord is not acknowledge as a bris, standard on the eight day

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