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FrTim's avatar

This is an incredible interview. There are other dioceses in a similar situation and the priests feel powerless. What can we do?

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Sep 26, 2023
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Bridget's avatar

> I donтАЩt think God wills that people submissively subject themselves to abuse, as a rule.

He permits people to abuse other people, but if we are on the receiving end and pondering whether to just put up with it (have I deserved this for my own sins, etc, which is a thought that an abuser would be happy to install and/or reinforce), we have to keep in mind that, in addition to other arguments, it is bad for the soul of the person who is committing abuse and since we don't want anyone to go to hell, something must be done somehow (the specific thing to do will vary and therefore I do not know what it is.)

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Seth Wm. Peters's avatar

Well, if you work in ministry, you could leave your job, but that leaves your co-workers to deal with the person in power on their own. if you can persuade everyone to document, document, document, then perhaps you can report to a third party. But parish employees are at-will employees, meaning they can be terminated for any reason, including the whim or suspicion of the narcissist. So you have to be very very careful. It's like working under a regime; it's hard to know who among your co-workers you can trust not to report you.

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Seth Wm. Peters's avatar

When the person in authoroty has undiagnosed Borderline, they will often divide the staff, favoring some while abusing others, sometimes indiscrimnately. So it's not always cleatr whether the person you are disclosing your observations to is one of the favored ones. Often it's not until a fellow co-worker falls from favor that you can access them and align them to your cause.

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Peter G. Epps's avatar

Yes. There must be a firm line between accepting suffering and enabling abuse.

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Sue Korlan's avatar

And even more importantly, it is bad for the souls of future victims so we have an obligation to try to put a stop to it for their sake as well.

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Seth Wm. Peters's avatar

Having recourse to the Divine Mercy Chaplet is the only thing that has helped me through similar situations. There is no cure for personality disorder; no pill to address the symptoms. The best the medical community has to offer is Dialectical Behavioral Therapy, but that assumes the narcissist is willing to consent to therpay, which requires that they admit there is something wrong unto themselves, which the nature of the disorder prevents them seeing. DBT is essentially a buddhist detachment, so it means nothing for the Christian who wants an actual apology or believes in the virtue of justice. In the end, the only thing one can do is implore Divine Mercy for the one being harmed and the one doing the harm.

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Hans's avatar

It's sometimes not merely a question of mismanagement but of abuse. Think of the difference between Messrs. Bailey and Potter in 'It's a Wonderful Life'. The former isn't necessarily a good manager, but that's a problem that can be worked around because he works with and cares about people. The latter is a rather better manager, but he so abuses the authority he has that he corrupts the things he touches, rather like a reverse Midas.

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Bisbee's avatar

What Father Brent suggests and JD encourages is the best and sometimes only solution.

Rome appoints men to empty Sees based on the advice of other bishops, men who are flawed and often want to promote others into their circle.

The people should have some consultative say that is taken seriously. Even if that say is about the qualities (not names) needed in a bishop to lead a local Church.

What does Rome know about the Diocese of Grass Hills thousands of miles away from the Vatican other than the names bishops of a metropolitan province turn into the nuncio (who might also know very little about that local Church)?

They might know facts and figures (which are important) but what qualities a new bishop needs...not so much.

The local faithful could have some say without it turning into a plebicite.

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MLMinET's avatar

And I would add the people should have the ability to say to the nuncio, metropolitan or whoever the best person may be whether they are receiving from their bishop the leadership they need.

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