“The spouses decide responsibly on the time to become parents, on the number of their children as well as on the different methods of family planning,” it says. “This is done in mutual respect and personal moral decision-making.”
The best news I've heard about this mess: "Synodal committee members have reportedly expressed concern that the synodal way is making little impression at a grassroots level in the German Church."
It’s sweet that they’re concerned… few people like committees. And the ones who do like them should be banned from being on them! Might solve a lot of problems.
Committees are not the sum total nor most essential form of man’s sociality. That’s a rather large logical leap from my (admittedly flippant) comment.
The social doctrine of the Catholic Church does not mandate modern committees with members, bylaws, motions and procedural norms built for secular political advocacy and governance of community organisations (I’ve read the whole thing, so try me.) It’s far too easy fool yourself into mistaking committee-verified groupthink for movement of the Holy Spirit. A tell tale sign of a committee going off piste is its treatment of dissent. Committees who (at best) blow off any dissenting opinion or passive aggressively drives questioning voices out of The organisation with procedural norms are not fun places to be. I’ve been on committees, and I’ve seem them be useful and functional as a means to a more important end. I’ve also seen them go to absolute pot with one or two highly motivated members with their pet issues and sit on multiple committees and aim to bend the organisation to their pet issues and drive out anyone who sees the committee as a means to a more important end.
I’ve been involved in Alinsky-style community organising and there is absolutely a type of person who is a chronic committee member. They sit on half a dozen at once and are generally extremely passive aggressive with the prodecural norms to get their way (which is usually more meetings) and seem to care very little about the actual work of the committee. They think they are doing ‘useful work’ by sitting on so many committees but actually manage to avoid doing any real work actioning items. The advice is avoid anyone who sits on more than two committees at a time just simply to get stuff done!
So there. You can dress it up as ‘synodaly’ as you like, but this German Committee is just that. A committee of people who think that committeies are the answer to the Church’s problems because they like committees. And they wonder why NO ONE else cares and why the Vatican keeps telling them to stop.
"Bätzing, the synodal committee’s other co-president, thanked Sr. Katharina Kluitmann, O.S.F., and Konstantin Bischoff for taking up the position after the two original spiritual advisers withdrew from the role.
“Katharina Kluitmann and Konstantin Bischoff have given the meeting the spiritual dimension that we need not to just drown behind papers and files,” the bishop said."
Think about what the bishop said and wonder about who it is who gives the spiritual dimension to the meeting.
I'm so happy you are here to comment, Kurt! I always look forward to your Synodal Weg insights. They keep me from becoming too critical as I need to prayerfully reflect on what I say, because I know there are others out there better informed than I.
It’s long-reached the point where it’s beyond clear Rome doesn’t care about this. Sad, since this arguably even more of a flagrant rebuking of the Apostolic See than the fiasco that got the SSPX excommunicated.
I’ve said for years now that the only solution has been to place all of Germany under interdict. The German body is so sick that all of it, even the healthy parts (ie “good dioceses”), all need to be collectively subjected to the proverbial chemotherapy of interdict. All clerics are dismissed from office, no sacraments, no public ministry or church-sponsored events.
“I would rather be governed by the first 2,000 people in the Cambridge, MA telephone directory, than by the Harvard University faculty.” --William F. Buckley
And maybe the first 200 people on the Church tax list than the incompetents who are today's episcopacy.
“The spouses decide responsibly on the time to become parents, on the number of their children as well as on the different methods of family planning,” it says. “This is done in mutual respect and personal moral decision-making.”
-It appears that they see God as absent.
That’s the German synodal way in a nutshell.
The best news I've heard about this mess: "Synodal committee members have reportedly expressed concern that the synodal way is making little impression at a grassroots level in the German Church."
It’s sweet that they’re concerned… few people like committees. And the ones who do like them should be banned from being on them! Might solve a lot of problems.
Your point is that the Catholic doctrine of the social nature of Man is a false doctrine?
Committees are not the sum total nor most essential form of man’s sociality. That’s a rather large logical leap from my (admittedly flippant) comment.
The social doctrine of the Catholic Church does not mandate modern committees with members, bylaws, motions and procedural norms built for secular political advocacy and governance of community organisations (I’ve read the whole thing, so try me.) It’s far too easy fool yourself into mistaking committee-verified groupthink for movement of the Holy Spirit. A tell tale sign of a committee going off piste is its treatment of dissent. Committees who (at best) blow off any dissenting opinion or passive aggressively drives questioning voices out of The organisation with procedural norms are not fun places to be. I’ve been on committees, and I’ve seem them be useful and functional as a means to a more important end. I’ve also seen them go to absolute pot with one or two highly motivated members with their pet issues and sit on multiple committees and aim to bend the organisation to their pet issues and drive out anyone who sees the committee as a means to a more important end.
I’ve been involved in Alinsky-style community organising and there is absolutely a type of person who is a chronic committee member. They sit on half a dozen at once and are generally extremely passive aggressive with the prodecural norms to get their way (which is usually more meetings) and seem to care very little about the actual work of the committee. They think they are doing ‘useful work’ by sitting on so many committees but actually manage to avoid doing any real work actioning items. The advice is avoid anyone who sits on more than two committees at a time just simply to get stuff done!
So there. You can dress it up as ‘synodaly’ as you like, but this German Committee is just that. A committee of people who think that committeies are the answer to the Church’s problems because they like committees. And they wonder why NO ONE else cares and why the Vatican keeps telling them to stop.
"Bätzing, the synodal committee’s other co-president, thanked Sr. Katharina Kluitmann, O.S.F., and Konstantin Bischoff for taking up the position after the two original spiritual advisers withdrew from the role.
“Katharina Kluitmann and Konstantin Bischoff have given the meeting the spiritual dimension that we need not to just drown behind papers and files,” the bishop said."
Think about what the bishop said and wonder about who it is who gives the spiritual dimension to the meeting.
Lord have mercy on your German Catholics.
Have mercy on us American Catholics who suffer from the incompetency of our bishops.
I'm so happy you are here to comment, Kurt! I always look forward to your Synodal Weg insights. They keep me from becoming too critical as I need to prayerfully reflect on what I say, because I know there are others out there better informed than I.
It’s long-reached the point where it’s beyond clear Rome doesn’t care about this. Sad, since this arguably even more of a flagrant rebuking of the Apostolic See than the fiasco that got the SSPX excommunicated.
I’ve said for years now that the only solution has been to place all of Germany under interdict. The German body is so sick that all of it, even the healthy parts (ie “good dioceses”), all need to be collectively subjected to the proverbial chemotherapy of interdict. All clerics are dismissed from office, no sacraments, no public ministry or church-sponsored events.
These German synodalists are SO BORING.
“I would rather be governed by the first 2,000 people in the Cambridge, MA telephone directory, than by the Harvard University faculty.” --William F. Buckley
And maybe the first 200 people on the Church tax list than the incompetents who are today's episcopacy.
Why don't they call it what it is "How to undermine sound Church doctrine without seemingly looking like we are undermining it".
How about we let the bishops handle doctrine and the laity handle the administration and disbursement of the church tax?
Amen brother.
I really have to hand it to Irme Stetter-Karp, she's almost a perfect anti-oracle. She is rarely ever not wrong.
so she's the Jim Cramer of German catholics then? :)