I’m a little confused by your response so let me see if I understand. It’s okay to protest a political matter, but not against “unborn human life,” such as protesting at an anti-abortion rally may mean you’re mentally ill or possessed by the devil?
If someone is literally carrying a sign promoting literal satanism and is literally shouting things that are meant to make someone think they are a satanist, either they are actually a satanist or they are playing with matches and in either case they need prayer. I hope not to see this again in my home town but I cannot say that I have never seen it, and it speaks poorly for the group that they were with that this was considered cool and edgy, instead of telling them that they are making their cause look bad and need to trade for a normal sign and shout normal slogans like normal white middle-class women. Can't imagine people at a BLM rally thinking "oh your satanism is cool and edgy, thanks for bringing it to the party" instead of "please no, this is not about you, stop making it about you."
"you don't try to convert a burglar who is engaged in the act of breaking into your home."
I'm not sure that the analogy is the same as protestors outside a church, but I'm also not sure I agree with this as an always-and-everywhere Christian principle. One must keep one's own children safe from harm. But the example of Bishop Bienvenu in Hugo's Les Miserables is a fascinating meditation on a Christian response to thievery.
and if Christians can't convert the zealots, demon possessed, and mentally ill, or at least don't think we can, I guess I have some questions about the authority of Jesus in the Gospel of Mark.
Thanks for responding. I'll give your response some thought. But one point is that I agree that debates or tussling isn't the right or reasonable response in such a context.
AFAIK I would take a bullet for a priest without even thinking about it (this is a simple factual observation based on dumb things I have done, rather than a recommendation to others) so it's probably best that they stay back a bit.
If I were counter-protesting, which is a thing I've only done twice (this is not a big city and I do not often find someone else's protest on my turf or marching past my post), I would kneel at a reasonable distance and pray either the rosary or the Divine Mercy chaplet (DM chaplet for preference if there is a lot of speech-making and slogan-chanting because it is simpler) until I am no longer able to continue, then limp back to my post. Does this do any good? That is God's problem and not my problem. He is also aware that I would like to be martyred and is probably not going to let me :-b
It sounds like you are thinking of the "Piglet Does a Very Grand Thing" sort of crisis, in which a person has time to reason through possible actions and consequences, and in which I am generally as much of a cold-blooded pragmatist as anyone could wish. The pragmatic approach would be to choose to save someone who is possibly in mortal sin, so that they have more time to repent, and to *not* save someone who is likely not in mortal sin because after all one has to raise one's children; but when I said "without even thinking about it" this was not a figure of speech, but an observation that there is a type of crisis in which a person reacts rather stupidly without being aware of thinking at all like Steve Rogers throwing himself on a dummy grenade. If it is something normal like a stranger fainting on the subway I succumb to bystander effect like anyone else, or if one of my kids is missing I panic like anyone else, but there are one or two sorts of crisis in which I apparently do something rather absurd or grandiose instead because in that one particular case my lizard-brain is a small dog that thinks it is a large dog.
I agree with you 100%. Don't allow them on Church property. If they wish to demonstrate on the sidewalk in front of the Church, they are perfectly within their rights to do so. By all means, do not tussle with them.
I learned over the years being a cop, don't try to covert a drunk when they are drunk. And don't try to reason with a mentally disturbed person who is going through an outright meltdown. Sort of describes some of these people. Hard to reason with them. And you may get physically attacked just attempting to give them a water bottle. A lot look completely unpredictable like a combination of mental and spiritual possession. Seriously. Prayer & Fasting was the advice Our Lord gave to drive out certain demons which seems to be case with some of these folks. Not just one or the other, but both prayer & fasting. Most of us do the first but are not so good at the second.
Nancy Pelosi thanked the Pro Abortionists for protesting...If the USCCB really wanted to make a statement- they should quit giving her communion or excommunicate her. I work with a group of Evangelical Christians. They cannot understand how I can be Catholic because of Catholic Pelosi and Catholic Biden's view on abortion and other matters...
Why isn't Pope "Who am I to judge" Francis condemning Joe "Devout Catholic" Biden for his encouragement of the "Mostly Peaceful" - but illegal - protests at SCOTUS' homes? Not to mention the fire bombing of a pro-life office in Wisconsin and interrupting Mass
As far as protesting SCOTUS homes it is in the law; google it for references. Unless I've been mistaken the Catholic teaching is abortion is immoral and murder. The failure of the Pope and the American hierarchy to enforce the denial of the Sacraments to those espousing abortion - e.g., Biden, Pelosi, Durban, etc. - is a disgrace. Unfortunately this pope is"packing the College of Cardinals" with like- minded socialists.
As far as protesting SCOTUS homes it is in the law; google it for references. Unless I've been mistaken the Catholic teaching is abortion is immoral and murder. The failure of the Pope and the American hierarchy to enforce the denial of the Sacraments to those espousing abortion - e.g., Biden, Pelosi, Durban, etc. - is a disgrace. Unfortunately this pope is"packing the College of Cardinals" with like- minded socialists.
Hello all - the topics we're discussing in the comments today are important, and interesting, and I'm grateful to see people talking about them.
I thought I would pop by with a reminder that the only comment policy at The Pillar is Christian charity, both for our interlocutors, and for those we're discussing.
No one should be discouraged from speaking plainly and candidly, as long as we do so with the imperative of Christian charity foremost in our minds. Thank you!
I don't think a call to prayer is an authentically Catholic response if it excludes a concern for the physical world. Catholicism is not a dualistic faith. Two churches in Colorado have been vandalized. That's sacrilege. I don't see any condemnation of that or the disruption of worship (or the threat to the Eucharist) in the USCCB's statement or addressed in the intentions. I'm not saying the bishops are being un-Catholic; it’s an omission, which reminds me too much of 2020.
Certainly protestors shouldn't be allowed to waltz into churches and interrupt the liturgy. Just as pro-lifers aren't allowed to waltz into abortion clinics and interrupt abortions. If they want to stand across the street, off church property, with their signs, etc., I think that is their right. I wonder if a good response might be offering the protestors a valid forum in which to raise their concerns. Like, an open forum, town hall kind of event where folks can come and communicate their message in a non-disruptive way that also allows people of the opposing side to voice their views as well (offering coffee and snacks at such an event seems to me rather reasonable!). In a post-Roe society, spaces for actual debate are going to be really vital. Really vital.
Thank you for publishing this! I immediately sent the link for the announcement to my pastor, and asked if we could announce this at the Thursday and Friday morning Masses. I also asked if we could send it to everyone that is on our parish email lists for updates. He is checking with our bishop, of course. Hopefully, we will get the word out in our parish!
Just for clarification, are you saying anyone who protests over a political matter is a “sick” person, perhaps mentally ill and/or demon possessed?
Not "a political matter", but the defense of unborn human life. There is a very big difference.
I’m a little confused by your response so let me see if I understand. It’s okay to protest a political matter, but not against “unborn human life,” such as protesting at an anti-abortion rally may mean you’re mentally ill or possessed by the devil?
If someone is literally carrying a sign promoting literal satanism and is literally shouting things that are meant to make someone think they are a satanist, either they are actually a satanist or they are playing with matches and in either case they need prayer. I hope not to see this again in my home town but I cannot say that I have never seen it, and it speaks poorly for the group that they were with that this was considered cool and edgy, instead of telling them that they are making their cause look bad and need to trade for a normal sign and shout normal slogans like normal white middle-class women. Can't imagine people at a BLM rally thinking "oh your satanism is cool and edgy, thanks for bringing it to the party" instead of "please no, this is not about you, stop making it about you."
"you don't try to convert a burglar who is engaged in the act of breaking into your home."
I'm not sure that the analogy is the same as protestors outside a church, but I'm also not sure I agree with this as an always-and-everywhere Christian principle. One must keep one's own children safe from harm. But the example of Bishop Bienvenu in Hugo's Les Miserables is a fascinating meditation on a Christian response to thievery.
That's why I say it's not so simple.
and if Christians can't convert the zealots, demon possessed, and mentally ill, or at least don't think we can, I guess I have some questions about the authority of Jesus in the Gospel of Mark.
Thanks for responding. I'll give your response some thought. But one point is that I agree that debates or tussling isn't the right or reasonable response in such a context.
AFAIK I would take a bullet for a priest without even thinking about it (this is a simple factual observation based on dumb things I have done, rather than a recommendation to others) so it's probably best that they stay back a bit.
If I were counter-protesting, which is a thing I've only done twice (this is not a big city and I do not often find someone else's protest on my turf or marching past my post), I would kneel at a reasonable distance and pray either the rosary or the Divine Mercy chaplet (DM chaplet for preference if there is a lot of speech-making and slogan-chanting because it is simpler) until I am no longer able to continue, then limp back to my post. Does this do any good? That is God's problem and not my problem. He is also aware that I would like to be martyred and is probably not going to let me :-b
It sounds like you are thinking of the "Piglet Does a Very Grand Thing" sort of crisis, in which a person has time to reason through possible actions and consequences, and in which I am generally as much of a cold-blooded pragmatist as anyone could wish. The pragmatic approach would be to choose to save someone who is possibly in mortal sin, so that they have more time to repent, and to *not* save someone who is likely not in mortal sin because after all one has to raise one's children; but when I said "without even thinking about it" this was not a figure of speech, but an observation that there is a type of crisis in which a person reacts rather stupidly without being aware of thinking at all like Steve Rogers throwing himself on a dummy grenade. If it is something normal like a stranger fainting on the subway I succumb to bystander effect like anyone else, or if one of my kids is missing I panic like anyone else, but there are one or two sorts of crisis in which I apparently do something rather absurd or grandiose instead because in that one particular case my lizard-brain is a small dog that thinks it is a large dog.
I agree with you 100%. Don't allow them on Church property. If they wish to demonstrate on the sidewalk in front of the Church, they are perfectly within their rights to do so. By all means, do not tussle with them.
I learned over the years being a cop, don't try to covert a drunk when they are drunk. And don't try to reason with a mentally disturbed person who is going through an outright meltdown. Sort of describes some of these people. Hard to reason with them. And you may get physically attacked just attempting to give them a water bottle. A lot look completely unpredictable like a combination of mental and spiritual possession. Seriously. Prayer & Fasting was the advice Our Lord gave to drive out certain demons which seems to be case with some of these folks. Not just one or the other, but both prayer & fasting. Most of us do the first but are not so good at the second.
Nancy Pelosi thanked the Pro Abortionists for protesting...If the USCCB really wanted to make a statement- they should quit giving her communion or excommunicate her. I work with a group of Evangelical Christians. They cannot understand how I can be Catholic because of Catholic Pelosi and Catholic Biden's view on abortion and other matters...
Because evangelicals do what they’re told without giving it much, if any, thought
Why isn't Pope "Who am I to judge" Francis condemning Joe "Devout Catholic" Biden for his encouragement of the "Mostly Peaceful" - but illegal - protests at SCOTUS' homes? Not to mention the fire bombing of a pro-life office in Wisconsin and interrupting Mass
Can you give me the place where their illegality is noted, pls?
18 U.S.C. 1507
Thanks
Also Virginia code 18.2-419
As far as protesting SCOTUS homes it is in the law; google it for references. Unless I've been mistaken the Catholic teaching is abortion is immoral and murder. The failure of the Pope and the American hierarchy to enforce the denial of the Sacraments to those espousing abortion - e.g., Biden, Pelosi, Durban, etc. - is a disgrace. Unfortunately this pope is"packing the College of Cardinals" with like- minded socialists.
You are quite judgmental
Thanks. And you are . . . ?
As far as protesting SCOTUS homes it is in the law; google it for references. Unless I've been mistaken the Catholic teaching is abortion is immoral and murder. The failure of the Pope and the American hierarchy to enforce the denial of the Sacraments to those espousing abortion - e.g., Biden, Pelosi, Durban, etc. - is a disgrace. Unfortunately this pope is"packing the College of Cardinals" with like- minded socialists.
Churches damaged by protests last weekend - Church buildings in California, Minnesota, New York, Kentucky, Texas, and Colorado were attacked.
https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/44709/churches-in-6-states-damaged-by-violent-protests. Homes of SCOTUS members - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvLaZyxzxSM. They are disruptive in neighborhoods, trampling on people's lawns, and disturbing their right and everyone in their neighborhoods to peace at home.
Hello all - the topics we're discussing in the comments today are important, and interesting, and I'm grateful to see people talking about them.
I thought I would pop by with a reminder that the only comment policy at The Pillar is Christian charity, both for our interlocutors, and for those we're discussing.
No one should be discouraged from speaking plainly and candidly, as long as we do so with the imperative of Christian charity foremost in our minds. Thank you!
How would one appraise the mental or emotional state of Eric Rudolph, for example?
I don't think a call to prayer is an authentically Catholic response if it excludes a concern for the physical world. Catholicism is not a dualistic faith. Two churches in Colorado have been vandalized. That's sacrilege. I don't see any condemnation of that or the disruption of worship (or the threat to the Eucharist) in the USCCB's statement or addressed in the intentions. I'm not saying the bishops are being un-Catholic; it’s an omission, which reminds me too much of 2020.
« God won’t always hit you on the head with your vocation. If you’re lucky, like Sr. Maria Francesca, he’ll hit someone else. »
Favorite two-liner so far - genuinely made me laugh despite the troubled times!
Hello. I just want to say, thank you for your great reporting.
I think your publication is so important that I threw some money your way.
Thanks!
Certainly protestors shouldn't be allowed to waltz into churches and interrupt the liturgy. Just as pro-lifers aren't allowed to waltz into abortion clinics and interrupt abortions. If they want to stand across the street, off church property, with their signs, etc., I think that is their right. I wonder if a good response might be offering the protestors a valid forum in which to raise their concerns. Like, an open forum, town hall kind of event where folks can come and communicate their message in a non-disruptive way that also allows people of the opposing side to voice their views as well (offering coffee and snacks at such an event seems to me rather reasonable!). In a post-Roe society, spaces for actual debate are going to be really vital. Really vital.
Let's not forget that the laity could be martyrs for the pro life cause too.
Thank you for publishing this! I immediately sent the link for the announcement to my pastor, and asked if we could announce this at the Thursday and Friday morning Masses. I also asked if we could send it to everyone that is on our parish email lists for updates. He is checking with our bishop, of course. Hopefully, we will get the word out in our parish!