He made choices that others did not and succumbed to his temptations. While it's good to suggest that we pray for him, the responsibility here is Leonelli's, alone - we did not "fail" him.
And please remember that we have to respect the decision to laicize him - Leonelli is not "Father" anymore.
You're right, we shouldn't use pejoratives. But as for him starting out with malicious aspirations, there's no reasonable cause to believe either way, and it doesn't matter, really - what matters is what he did.
You won't absolve "the community", but I can't condemn any community - whether the CFR or the entire Church - for the actions of a member. While we're commanded to pray, God isn't compelled by our prayers to prevent suffering, and sometimes His answer to prayer is "no". Besides, His love and mercy always include the gift of free will, right?
OK, OK. I'm not absolving anyone and I'm not condemning anyone. It's not my prerogative. But I can tell you that my time in seminary and diocesan priesthood, 1987—2000, gave me a front row seat to the corruption of priestly formation and ministry. There are a lot of inadequately vetted and trained clergy out there.
Sorry if I'm being strident. I can only imagine what you've seen, since the inklings I've gained over the last year of reading The Pillar have been sad enough. I'll pray for you, please pray for me!
Sorry, Thomas - I need to ask. What did you do to prevent or eliminate the corruption that you saw from your front row seat?
And as someone else said, I have nothing to do with the moral failures of others that abuse their their "power" for their sexual gratification. I'm sinful enough as to carry someone else's sins.
A fair question. And I'll ask you, have you read "Good Bye, Good Men" by Michael S. Rose?
What did I do ... ?
While in seminary, I advocated for the pro-life movement for one thing, only to be chastised by the rector.
In the diocese, I was run out or frozen out of several parishes for exhibiting orthodoxy and reverence. The bishop told me I could be "too right", you know.
What, Dallas, would you like me to write? A litany of all of the demoralizing experiences I had?
I resigned from ministry. Many of the priests who remained either had their souls crushed or turned to vices and crimes, such as gambling, alcoholism, embezzlement and, of course, illicit sexual activity. These are priests of the diocese that I was acquainted with, not conjectured stereotypes. It wasn't an environment I cared to live in.
I post what I post to raise awareness. Too many Catholics, even on this site, seem to have their heads in the sand. That, in itself, facilitates the corruption.
Your experiences are similar to what I've read elsewhere; I'm not sure "demoralizing" properly captures what you've experienced. I'm so sorry, for you and our Church.
To me this is all part and parcel with the explosion in influence of the "lavender mafia", of "progressive" priests and theology, and the suppression of the Tridentine Mass. (For how can one engage in revolution without first tearing down the old ways?) However, I sense their revolution is failing.
The current pontificate signals perhaps both the apogee and nadir of progressive influence in the Church. Think about it: a cabal of now-deceased liberal Cardinals conspired to elect Francis, but his sincerely progressive pontificate (repeatedly sowing confusion and scandal, punctuated by unpastoral words and deeds) starkly reveals the congenital flaws of the progressive movement. I think we have reason to both pray and hope that the next pope will be both more orthodox and more pastoral. (And, Lord, would it be too much to ask that he is also a friend of the Tridentine Mass, a fearless reformer, and an effective enemy of corruption and heterodoxy?)
Our Lady at Fatima told people to offer prayers, especially the rosary, and penance for sinners to keep many from going to hell. It's on all of us to do so as an act of charity.
That’s the wrong reaction, Tom.
This is a failure of us all.
Fr. Leonelli fell into the machinations of the demons.
And no one came to his rescue.
He made choices that others did not and succumbed to his temptations. While it's good to suggest that we pray for him, the responsibility here is Leonelli's, alone - we did not "fail" him.
And please remember that we have to respect the decision to laicize him - Leonelli is not "Father" anymore.
Fair enough. I'm not absolving Leonelli of responsibility. But I'm not absolving the community either.
I thought that "scumbag" and "despicable" were too harsh. I doubt he started out with malicious aspirations.
Current church politics leave a lot of priests isolated and frustrated. Same goes for laypersons.
It's not good.
You're right, we shouldn't use pejoratives. But as for him starting out with malicious aspirations, there's no reasonable cause to believe either way, and it doesn't matter, really - what matters is what he did.
You won't absolve "the community", but I can't condemn any community - whether the CFR or the entire Church - for the actions of a member. While we're commanded to pray, God isn't compelled by our prayers to prevent suffering, and sometimes His answer to prayer is "no". Besides, His love and mercy always include the gift of free will, right?
OK, OK. I'm not absolving anyone and I'm not condemning anyone. It's not my prerogative. But I can tell you that my time in seminary and diocesan priesthood, 1987—2000, gave me a front row seat to the corruption of priestly formation and ministry. There are a lot of inadequately vetted and trained clergy out there.
Sorry if I'm being strident. I can only imagine what you've seen, since the inklings I've gained over the last year of reading The Pillar have been sad enough. I'll pray for you, please pray for me!
Roger, Chuck!
Sorry, Thomas - I need to ask. What did you do to prevent or eliminate the corruption that you saw from your front row seat?
And as someone else said, I have nothing to do with the moral failures of others that abuse their their "power" for their sexual gratification. I'm sinful enough as to carry someone else's sins.
A fair question. And I'll ask you, have you read "Good Bye, Good Men" by Michael S. Rose?
What did I do ... ?
While in seminary, I advocated for the pro-life movement for one thing, only to be chastised by the rector.
In the diocese, I was run out or frozen out of several parishes for exhibiting orthodoxy and reverence. The bishop told me I could be "too right", you know.
What, Dallas, would you like me to write? A litany of all of the demoralizing experiences I had?
I resigned from ministry. Many of the priests who remained either had their souls crushed or turned to vices and crimes, such as gambling, alcoholism, embezzlement and, of course, illicit sexual activity. These are priests of the diocese that I was acquainted with, not conjectured stereotypes. It wasn't an environment I cared to live in.
I post what I post to raise awareness. Too many Catholics, even on this site, seem to have their heads in the sand. That, in itself, facilitates the corruption.
Your experiences are similar to what I've read elsewhere; I'm not sure "demoralizing" properly captures what you've experienced. I'm so sorry, for you and our Church.
To me this is all part and parcel with the explosion in influence of the "lavender mafia", of "progressive" priests and theology, and the suppression of the Tridentine Mass. (For how can one engage in revolution without first tearing down the old ways?) However, I sense their revolution is failing.
The current pontificate signals perhaps both the apogee and nadir of progressive influence in the Church. Think about it: a cabal of now-deceased liberal Cardinals conspired to elect Francis, but his sincerely progressive pontificate (repeatedly sowing confusion and scandal, punctuated by unpastoral words and deeds) starkly reveals the congenital flaws of the progressive movement. I think we have reason to both pray and hope that the next pope will be both more orthodox and more pastoral. (And, Lord, would it be too much to ask that he is also a friend of the Tridentine Mass, a fearless reformer, and an effective enemy of corruption and heterodoxy?)
Our Lady at Fatima told people to offer prayers, especially the rosary, and penance for sinners to keep many from going to hell. It's on all of us to do so as an act of charity.