<<In their Aug. 18 statement, the nuns said they have also made some liturgical changes at their monastery.
“In order to better render glory to God and “more profoundly to enter into the contemplation of His Sacred Mysteries,” the nuns said they have decided “to celebrate the Sacred Liturgy,…
<<In their Aug. 18 statement, the nuns said they have also made some liturgical changes at their monastery.
“In order to better render glory to God and “more profoundly to enter into the contemplation of His Sacred Mysteries,” the nuns said they have decided “to celebrate the Sacred Liturgy, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the Divine Office, the sacraments, sacramentals and other rites according to the older forms of the Roman rite according to the traditional Discalced Carmelite usages.”>>
but yes, Vigano is a traditionalist. you don't get to exclude him from that identifier just because you don't like him. there is a significant overlap between traditionalists and support for Trump, and Church Militant is also a semi-traditionalist group- its opposition to some other traditionalist groups does not change that.
Still, I would not consider Vigano a traditionalist. As far as I know he has only even celebrated the TLM a handful of times and seemed to start doing so only as recently as 2020.
Sure, there is some overlap as there is usually overlap between many groups in an organization as big as the universal church.
I can assure you Vigano and Church Militant are not popular in any TLM circle of which I’ve ever been a part.
I would ask you to consider that your original tone is still not charitable calling them “traddies” as an insult and lumping that group in with Vigano as if we all love Vigano.
In my view, “Traddies” represent a certain flavor of traditionally-minded individual. Certainly not all who attend TLM. Personally I would describe the term as describing someone more willing to trust their own informed-by-tradition concept of Catholicism over the current Church hierarchy’s. They may even be right in their critique… but they need to remain obedient. Obedience is a deeper tradition of the Church even than the traditions they hold most dear. “Christ was obedient unto death, even death on a Cross. Therefore God highly
exalted Him…” Perhaps forgetting that Christ’s obedience ended in His death, however, traddies seem to be justifying themselves as “martyrs” for resisting the guidance of their ‘modernist’ but legitimate Church leadership. And, yes, Vigano is very much a “traddie”
in this sense. Perhaps look up Taylor Marshall on YouTube to get up to speed.
Brendan, I'm glad to hear how you approach the matters separating traditionalism from these problematic figures. Yet, I have to say you are probably the only one I've ever seen doing that. Not that my experience is vast and broad, but from where I sit, being a traditionalist embraces all the weirdness this thread mentions.. Would that it would not be so.
May I ask to what extent that experience is online vs in person?
I have been going almost exclusively to the TLM for years. I’ve certainly met my fair share of nutty people and the types of traditionalists Jen and Joseph are talking about. But they are a minority in my experience.
I’ve also met my fair share of Novus Ordo Catholics that use contraception and think two men should be able to marry. The issue I have with Joseph’s comment is he uses the term “traddy” to make us “other” and lumps us all together. We ought to acknowledge that within different “groups” of the church there are different issues and levels of heterodoxy. I don’t think it’s accurate or fair to paint traditionalists as the biggest problem, and Joseph seems to constantly do that.
sounds like you missed this part of the article:
<<In their Aug. 18 statement, the nuns said they have also made some liturgical changes at their monastery.
“In order to better render glory to God and “more profoundly to enter into the contemplation of His Sacred Mysteries,” the nuns said they have decided “to celebrate the Sacred Liturgy, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the Divine Office, the sacraments, sacramentals and other rites according to the older forms of the Roman rite according to the traditional Discalced Carmelite usages.”>>
but yes, Vigano is a traditionalist. you don't get to exclude him from that identifier just because you don't like him. there is a significant overlap between traditionalists and support for Trump, and Church Militant is also a semi-traditionalist group- its opposition to some other traditionalist groups does not change that.
I did miss that part, I apologize.
Still, I would not consider Vigano a traditionalist. As far as I know he has only even celebrated the TLM a handful of times and seemed to start doing so only as recently as 2020.
Sure, there is some overlap as there is usually overlap between many groups in an organization as big as the universal church.
I can assure you Vigano and Church Militant are not popular in any TLM circle of which I’ve ever been a part.
I would ask you to consider that your original tone is still not charitable calling them “traddies” as an insult and lumping that group in with Vigano as if we all love Vigano.
In my view, “Traddies” represent a certain flavor of traditionally-minded individual. Certainly not all who attend TLM. Personally I would describe the term as describing someone more willing to trust their own informed-by-tradition concept of Catholicism over the current Church hierarchy’s. They may even be right in their critique… but they need to remain obedient. Obedience is a deeper tradition of the Church even than the traditions they hold most dear. “Christ was obedient unto death, even death on a Cross. Therefore God highly
exalted Him…” Perhaps forgetting that Christ’s obedience ended in His death, however, traddies seem to be justifying themselves as “martyrs” for resisting the guidance of their ‘modernist’ but legitimate Church leadership. And, yes, Vigano is very much a “traddie”
in this sense. Perhaps look up Taylor Marshall on YouTube to get up to speed.
Oh I’m well familiar with Taylor Marshall and his nonsense.
I don’t care for the term, but maybe it’s just me.
Brendan, I'm glad to hear how you approach the matters separating traditionalism from these problematic figures. Yet, I have to say you are probably the only one I've ever seen doing that. Not that my experience is vast and broad, but from where I sit, being a traditionalist embraces all the weirdness this thread mentions.. Would that it would not be so.
May I ask to what extent that experience is online vs in person?
I have been going almost exclusively to the TLM for years. I’ve certainly met my fair share of nutty people and the types of traditionalists Jen and Joseph are talking about. But they are a minority in my experience.
I’ve also met my fair share of Novus Ordo Catholics that use contraception and think two men should be able to marry. The issue I have with Joseph’s comment is he uses the term “traddy” to make us “other” and lumps us all together. We ought to acknowledge that within different “groups” of the church there are different issues and levels of heterodoxy. I don’t think it’s accurate or fair to paint traditionalists as the biggest problem, and Joseph seems to constantly do that.
They are a minority, but they sure seem to like to hop on YouTube and make videos / blast messages…
Obedience is better than sacrifice 1 Sam 15:22