Mahony handled rampant child rape just like a catholic - he protected 100% of pedophiles in 100% of cases, just like catholics did everywhere else.
330,000 little boys in France were raped by 3,000 catholic pedophile priests, and it barely made the news, because that's what catholics do, even though Jesus said child rape was unforgivable (Matt 18:6-14), and everyone involved will get eternal damnation.
Mahoney protected hundreds of pedo priests, like Ruben Martinez, who admitted raping over 100 children, including his 5 year old nephew. ANy normal male would have beat him senseless. Mahoney did what all catholic priests do - protect Martinez, then send him to safety in another country.
I have always been suspicious of why such a tepid response from most priests and bishops regarding the sexual abuse scandal. (I use the term broadly so not to leave out any part of the spectrum of abuse)
I don’t see or hear the outrage that should be forthcoming from crimes that cry to heaven for retribution. Why is that?! I have my suspicions that the rot runs VERY deep.
We are well aware of those sins. We do penance for them and face civil justice when it is metered out. Even for men like Mahoney with his head so far up his… I’ll stop there. Hence the mildly-toned midwestern sarcasm present in the description of Mahoney’s latest antics. I’ve heard out of the mouths of priests (much younger ones who probably spend more time hearing confessions than Mahoney has in his life) who would do exactly what any biological father would do if they found out about a monstrous crime like that. It’s thankfully much rarer now from clergy, but the heartbreak in the confessional from children abused by a parent, step-parent, teacher, coach etc… is still breaks their hearts and has its evil way with their families and wider community. Most of those go unprosecuted too.
Dear Sir, I should be most grateful to learn whether Cardinal Mahony’s new humbler self-portrait is also available to largely irrelevant lay folk like myself. Since learning that it’s available free of charge, I’ve been beside myself trying to secure one. This is because the previous one covering my dartboard is long worn out. Yours in anticipation
I am uncertain why the West, especially The Pillar don't comprehend the difference between the UOC and the OCU.
1. The UOC recently severed all relations with Moscow; yet, your article states otherwise.
2. The UOC is apostolic and canonical; it always has been; and it's recognized as such by all of the local Orthodox churches as such.
3. The OCU is a false church neither possessing apostolicity--no apostolic ordinations--and is the creation of the US Government (USG) and the Ecumenical Patriarch (EP). The OCU would be akin to the Pope creating a new church and bestowing the priesthood on a group of Protestants.
4. The acts in #3 above affect ecclesiology. How can non-apostolic OCU *priests* valid confer sacraments? Yet, the USG + EP + "The Pillar" pretend they can. How can non-apostolic OCU *priests* administer the prayers of exorcism in a baptism?
The demons are celebrating the broken ecclesiology placed forth by the naive an ill-informed USG + EP + "The Pillar." Yet, "The Pillar" states "But the dialogue has captured the imagination of Ukraine, and become a big deal in the media — with many people seeing grassroots conversation like that a sign of the vitality of Ukrainian society." Would you herald such actions and interferences by the USG in America with the American Catholic church?
Thanks Father. Our Ukrainian correspondent is, in fact, a Ukrainian, so I would be careful not to conflate the pillar with "the west," but obviously the points you raise are not held universally in Ukraine, among theologians, or even with the UOC-MP.
1. I don't know your Ukrainian correspondent and my words are not meant to disparage him/her. But invoking the logic is akin to saying Biden/Pelosi are Catholics and, therefore, knowledgeable of the Catholic faith and its ecclesiology.
2. I'm a Mexican-American from Texas, a retired military officer, and a late vocations priest, and even I understand the ecclesiological issues 'in Ukraine.' I am one of the priests who left the EP to escape the non-canonical, non-apostolic actions (of the EP)!
3. "Conflate" is a good word, but the content and context used in your article are the same as in much of the West. (And I don't want "The Pillar" to be of the West!) But saying that the "points raised are not universally [held] in Ukraine" one could say the same things of Catholicism in the West. And so, all things receive equal credence?...as do the comments concerning Ukraine? (One of the reasons I subscribe to "The Pillar" is to seek some measure of ground truth.)
I would never wish anyone to move away from a non-canonical, non-apostolic church corrupting ecclesiology.
And so, I will leave you with one thought, if the non-canonical, non-apostolic OCU is to be the means or bridge with which the Pope and the EP unite, which appears to be on the mind of many Orthodox, how much more spiritually corrupt would the RCC be? If I were a Catholic priest or lay person, I would be weeping.
The pope literally already did that. It is called the Anglican Ordinariates. Many Catholics are pretty happy about it.
Your definition of apostolic sounds like it is different from the Catholic one. I would appreciate understanding the definition of apostolic that you are using. I think it would help us understand the difference in the way of thinking. For us, an apostolic ordination is any ordination by a true bishop. What else is required for your definition?
Apostolic ordination, in Orthodoxy, is the same as in Catholicism--ordination by an apostolically ordained bishop from a canonical local Orthodox church.
I would commend to you, that in the West, the Anglican Ordinariates are not in the same category as the non-apostolic, non-canonical OCU who refuse to be ordained by an apostolic bishop, i.e., meaning no corrective measures to validate the OCU priesthood will be accepted. It's akin to a Calvinist Baptist without having attended a seminary being given authority to have a Catholic mass at a consecrated altar.
It sounds like the difference is "from a canonical local Orthodox church." We wouldn't have that stipulation.
So if a UOC bishop goes to Iraq and ordains a man, you would say that the ordination is not valid?
For Catholics the local part does not matter. Surely the OCU bishops were ordained by some bishop? But you are saying that the problem is that he was not from the UOC? So would you also say that the Ukrainian Catholic bishops are not apostolic?
If a UOC bishop were to seek to ordain someone in Iraq, first the UOC bishop would need permission from the local Iraqi Orthodox bishop, and, second, the person to be ordained would (likely) only be permitted to serve Ukrainians. The exception would be that the Iraqi Orthodox bishop is petitioned by the layman to have the UOC bishop perform the ordination based on a prior relationship between the two (the UOC bishop and the layman).
A bishop cannot travel into another local bishop's *territory* for the purposes of performing any Holy Mysteries (Sacraments) without the permission of the local bishop.
I won't touch the issue of the bishops of Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (UGCC) in Ukraine; that is Rome's concern. I will say the following, if you (generally speaking) consider the UGCC bishops to be canonically & apostolically ordained & elevated to hierarchical status, why would they share an altar with the OCU?
So, yes, that is the difference. Catholics would say that a bishop cannot lose his apostolic ordination nor lose his ability to ordain apostolic bishops. For instance, when Archbishop Lefebvre ordained four bishops, they are apostolic and validly ordained despite him not having permission to do so. This is why we recognize all the Orthodox and Old Catholics and Polish National Catholics etc as having apostolic orders despite the canonical disputes. So long as the form and matter are correct, a bishop validly ordains. Being defrocked by Moscow does not, according to our theology, have any effect upon his apostolicity.
The main reason for the Catholics to be in dialogue with any Christians is to achieve what Jesus called for, "That they may be one as we are one."
"Being defrocked by Moscow does not, according to our theology, have any effect upon his apostolicity." Interesting, so if the Pope were to defrock, anathematize, and laicize a bishop, that same *former bishop* could still ordain a priest?
Yes, Orthodoxy is very different. As a priest, I cannot perform the Holy Mysteries in another local Orthodox church without first getting permission from my bishop and then receiving permission from the bishop whose church I am going to visit.
In the Los Angeles suburban parish where I attended Mass while on holiday from Australia in 2017, I saw a visiting Cdl Mahoney - of whom I knew nothing at the time - receive what amounted to a rockstar reception. Maybe he knows his audience?
You all left off important information on Cardinal Mahony's autograph photo.
The first 100 customers will also receive the Cardinal's own humility prayer: "God grant me humility for it is the only virtue that I lack!".
But wait there's more...the first 100 customers will also receive a second autographed photo (just pay separate shipping & handling). This incredible offer CANNOT be found in stores. Operators are standing by...call now!
You chaps ought to have talked up The Pizza Factory inside Skinner's on the podcast. Mmmm, pizza! If you are ever in Flint, Michigan, you ought to visit B.J.'s, home of the Dancing Sandwiches.
Any thoughts on the strange service our Pope participated in while in Canada? Calling upon Wester Grandmother and circle of spirits seem a bit pagan. It is difficult to defend or explain his actions when they go so far into the realm of pagan idolatry.
Safe travels, and thank you for all you do! (I especially loved the article on the Ukrainian Church, and pray for healing, reconciliation and unity.)
Mahony handled rampant child rape just like a catholic - he protected 100% of pedophiles in 100% of cases, just like catholics did everywhere else.
330,000 little boys in France were raped by 3,000 catholic pedophile priests, and it barely made the news, because that's what catholics do, even though Jesus said child rape was unforgivable (Matt 18:6-14), and everyone involved will get eternal damnation.
Mahoney protected hundreds of pedo priests, like Ruben Martinez, who admitted raping over 100 children, including his 5 year old nephew. ANy normal male would have beat him senseless. Mahoney did what all catholic priests do - protect Martinez, then send him to safety in another country.
I have always been suspicious of why such a tepid response from most priests and bishops regarding the sexual abuse scandal. (I use the term broadly so not to leave out any part of the spectrum of abuse)
I don’t see or hear the outrage that should be forthcoming from crimes that cry to heaven for retribution. Why is that?! I have my suspicions that the rot runs VERY deep.
We are well aware of those sins. We do penance for them and face civil justice when it is metered out. Even for men like Mahoney with his head so far up his… I’ll stop there. Hence the mildly-toned midwestern sarcasm present in the description of Mahoney’s latest antics. I’ve heard out of the mouths of priests (much younger ones who probably spend more time hearing confessions than Mahoney has in his life) who would do exactly what any biological father would do if they found out about a monstrous crime like that. It’s thankfully much rarer now from clergy, but the heartbreak in the confessional from children abused by a parent, step-parent, teacher, coach etc… is still breaks their hearts and has its evil way with their families and wider community. Most of those go unprosecuted too.
Hi JD and Ed,
I live in the Twin Cities area in MN.
What time is the recording of the podcast at Skinner’s Pub tomorrow? I don’t see a time listed, and I’d love to join you guys for that.
Hi all --
We'll get to the pub around 6:30, and aim to start recording the show around 7, and then hang out as long as people are interested in hanging out.
Awesome! Looking forward to it! I’ll see you guys there! Looking forward to meeting you!
Gotta get the totchos and the reuben pizza. Classics!
Dear Sir, I should be most grateful to learn whether Cardinal Mahony’s new humbler self-portrait is also available to largely irrelevant lay folk like myself. Since learning that it’s available free of charge, I’ve been beside myself trying to secure one. This is because the previous one covering my dartboard is long worn out. Yours in anticipation
Us Midwesterners are naturally friendly; friendliness is part of the culture. Relax and enjoy your visit.
I am uncertain why the West, especially The Pillar don't comprehend the difference between the UOC and the OCU.
1. The UOC recently severed all relations with Moscow; yet, your article states otherwise.
2. The UOC is apostolic and canonical; it always has been; and it's recognized as such by all of the local Orthodox churches as such.
3. The OCU is a false church neither possessing apostolicity--no apostolic ordinations--and is the creation of the US Government (USG) and the Ecumenical Patriarch (EP). The OCU would be akin to the Pope creating a new church and bestowing the priesthood on a group of Protestants.
4. The acts in #3 above affect ecclesiology. How can non-apostolic OCU *priests* valid confer sacraments? Yet, the USG + EP + "The Pillar" pretend they can. How can non-apostolic OCU *priests* administer the prayers of exorcism in a baptism?
The demons are celebrating the broken ecclesiology placed forth by the naive an ill-informed USG + EP + "The Pillar." Yet, "The Pillar" states "But the dialogue has captured the imagination of Ukraine, and become a big deal in the media — with many people seeing grassroots conversation like that a sign of the vitality of Ukrainian society." Would you herald such actions and interferences by the USG in America with the American Catholic church?
May God have mercy!
Thanks Father. Our Ukrainian correspondent is, in fact, a Ukrainian, so I would be careful not to conflate the pillar with "the west," but obviously the points you raise are not held universally in Ukraine, among theologians, or even with the UOC-MP.
Glad you're weighing in though!
Mr. Flynn, thanks for your feedback.
1. I don't know your Ukrainian correspondent and my words are not meant to disparage him/her. But invoking the logic is akin to saying Biden/Pelosi are Catholics and, therefore, knowledgeable of the Catholic faith and its ecclesiology.
2. I'm a Mexican-American from Texas, a retired military officer, and a late vocations priest, and even I understand the ecclesiological issues 'in Ukraine.' I am one of the priests who left the EP to escape the non-canonical, non-apostolic actions (of the EP)!
3. "Conflate" is a good word, but the content and context used in your article are the same as in much of the West. (And I don't want "The Pillar" to be of the West!) But saying that the "points raised are not universally [held] in Ukraine" one could say the same things of Catholicism in the West. And so, all things receive equal credence?...as do the comments concerning Ukraine? (One of the reasons I subscribe to "The Pillar" is to seek some measure of ground truth.)
I would never wish anyone to move away from a non-canonical, non-apostolic church corrupting ecclesiology.
And so, I will leave you with one thought, if the non-canonical, non-apostolic OCU is to be the means or bridge with which the Pope and the EP unite, which appears to be on the mind of many Orthodox, how much more spiritually corrupt would the RCC be? If I were a Catholic priest or lay person, I would be weeping.
God bless you for all you do.
Good article for consideration on the dynamics of Ukraine.
Ukrainian Church statutes no longer have any connection to Russian Church, state official confirms / OrthoChristian.Com
https://orthochristian.com/147137.html
The pope literally already did that. It is called the Anglican Ordinariates. Many Catholics are pretty happy about it.
Your definition of apostolic sounds like it is different from the Catholic one. I would appreciate understanding the definition of apostolic that you are using. I think it would help us understand the difference in the way of thinking. For us, an apostolic ordination is any ordination by a true bishop. What else is required for your definition?
Apostolic ordination, in Orthodoxy, is the same as in Catholicism--ordination by an apostolically ordained bishop from a canonical local Orthodox church.
I would commend to you, that in the West, the Anglican Ordinariates are not in the same category as the non-apostolic, non-canonical OCU who refuse to be ordained by an apostolic bishop, i.e., meaning no corrective measures to validate the OCU priesthood will be accepted. It's akin to a Calvinist Baptist without having attended a seminary being given authority to have a Catholic mass at a consecrated altar.
It sounds like the difference is "from a canonical local Orthodox church." We wouldn't have that stipulation.
So if a UOC bishop goes to Iraq and ordains a man, you would say that the ordination is not valid?
For Catholics the local part does not matter. Surely the OCU bishops were ordained by some bishop? But you are saying that the problem is that he was not from the UOC? So would you also say that the Ukrainian Catholic bishops are not apostolic?
If a UOC bishop were to seek to ordain someone in Iraq, first the UOC bishop would need permission from the local Iraqi Orthodox bishop, and, second, the person to be ordained would (likely) only be permitted to serve Ukrainians. The exception would be that the Iraqi Orthodox bishop is petitioned by the layman to have the UOC bishop perform the ordination based on a prior relationship between the two (the UOC bishop and the layman).
A bishop cannot travel into another local bishop's *territory* for the purposes of performing any Holy Mysteries (Sacraments) without the permission of the local bishop.
Yes, the OCU bishops were *ordained* by a defrocked, anathematized bishop, Metropolitan Filaret - https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1992/06/13/ukraines-top-cleric-defrocked/18c1fa4d-0ace-4adf-8e96-cff335e97d36/ - defrocked by Moscow, and recognized by the Ecumenical Patriarch. After being defrocked, Filaret then created his own church! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_Orthodox_Church_%E2%80%93_Kyiv_Patriarchate
I won't touch the issue of the bishops of Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church (UGCC) in Ukraine; that is Rome's concern. I will say the following, if you (generally speaking) consider the UGCC bishops to be canonically & apostolically ordained & elevated to hierarchical status, why would they share an altar with the OCU?
So, yes, that is the difference. Catholics would say that a bishop cannot lose his apostolic ordination nor lose his ability to ordain apostolic bishops. For instance, when Archbishop Lefebvre ordained four bishops, they are apostolic and validly ordained despite him not having permission to do so. This is why we recognize all the Orthodox and Old Catholics and Polish National Catholics etc as having apostolic orders despite the canonical disputes. So long as the form and matter are correct, a bishop validly ordains. Being defrocked by Moscow does not, according to our theology, have any effect upon his apostolicity.
The main reason for the Catholics to be in dialogue with any Christians is to achieve what Jesus called for, "That they may be one as we are one."
"Being defrocked by Moscow does not, according to our theology, have any effect upon his apostolicity." Interesting, so if the Pope were to defrock, anathematize, and laicize a bishop, that same *former bishop* could still ordain a priest?
Yes, Orthodoxy is very different. As a priest, I cannot perform the Holy Mysteries in another local Orthodox church without first getting permission from my bishop and then receiving permission from the bishop whose church I am going to visit.
Not only is Cdl Mahoney holding his basket with five loaves but two fish as well. 🙄
OH! You're quite right! I ought to have put on my glasses to inspect it better!
I took my glasses off and indeed found the portrait more palatable aesthetically…
It's not really a self-portrait of Mahony, is it? Self-promotion, definitely.
I would not have guessed that Luke's Unprofitable Servant (who did his duty) has helped focus Cardinal Mahoney during his retirement.
It's not my top pick for fruitful parables to ponder but it is possible that he is better at digging than I am.
How tone deaf do you have to be to let people know you had a new SELF PORTRAIT DONE.
I mean, wow. That's pretty....egotistical.
Hi JD. I was expecting you, an expert on all things Opus Dei, to comment on the recent motu propio and it's implications.
Are we getting something on that?
In the Los Angeles suburban parish where I attended Mass while on holiday from Australia in 2017, I saw a visiting Cdl Mahoney - of whom I knew nothing at the time - receive what amounted to a rockstar reception. Maybe he knows his audience?
You all left off important information on Cardinal Mahony's autograph photo.
The first 100 customers will also receive the Cardinal's own humility prayer: "God grant me humility for it is the only virtue that I lack!".
But wait there's more...the first 100 customers will also receive a second autographed photo (just pay separate shipping & handling). This incredible offer CANNOT be found in stores. Operators are standing by...call now!
You chaps ought to have talked up The Pizza Factory inside Skinner's on the podcast. Mmmm, pizza! If you are ever in Flint, Michigan, you ought to visit B.J.'s, home of the Dancing Sandwiches.
Any thoughts on the strange service our Pope participated in while in Canada? Calling upon Wester Grandmother and circle of spirits seem a bit pagan. It is difficult to defend or explain his actions when they go so far into the realm of pagan idolatry.