Can you point me to Church teaching that says a politician can openly support abortion and not be in grave sin? Taking Holy Communion while in grave sin is not “coherent devotion to the Blessed Sacrament”.
Can you point me to a Church teaching that a politician can openly support divorce, adultery, masturbation, union busting, or blasphemy and not be in grave sin?
Any politician who commits those acts - divorce, adultery, masturbation or has an abortion -- would be in grave sin, as would any person not in public life.
So, what exactly do you mean by a "coherent devotion" to the Blessed Sacrament, Kurt? I can have a coherent devotion to the Eucharist and *still* be in a state of unworthiness to receive the sacrament - these two are not mutually exclusive. President Biden is unambiguously forbidden from receiving the Blessed Sacrament for being in an obstinate and persistent state of grave error in violation of explicit teachings. The scandal is created by the bishop offering Biden the Holy Eucharist, the sin is Biden accepting the Eucharist.
The President receives the Holy Eucharist regularly as he well should and as his spiritual superiors recommend to him. He is man of deep faith despite the baseless accusations of others.
Hang on, these are not "baseless accusations", Kurt. These are simply observations which even the President does not deny. Yes, I agree that the President should receive the Holy Eucharist, but *only* after making a perfect confession with a firm purpose of amendment, and - so far - he persists in obstinate denial of Rome's explicit directions for reception of the Eucharist. The scandal is created by the bishops who refuse to enforce this unambiguous sanction.
Your assertions are not accepted by the President nor the legitimate leaders of the Catholic Church. The President has affirmed he accepts the Church's teaching on the immorality of abortion. Popes Benedict and Francis have given him communion as has his bishop. You have a personal point of views that is particular to you.
No, these are not my assertions, Kurt. The Catechism is unambiguous on this point; now you either accept the legitimacy of the Catechism, or you don't. It sounds like you don't.
Nothing in the Catechism says any such thing. The current and previous popes, cardinals, bishops and thoughtful layperson all recognize this, hence Joe Biden has received the Eucharist from the very hands of Francis, Benedict and Wilton Gregory. I fully accept the legitimacy of the Catechism.
Kurt, the Catechism 1415 is unambiguously clear on this. If that's not clear enough for you, then read Canon 915. If that's still not clear enough for you, then read Pope Francis' own letter to the Argentine Assembly of Bishops from March 2013, specifically paragraph 436 of the Aparecida Document.
I'm not making this up, this is doctrine upheld by the Papal Magisterium. You are correct that President Biden has received the Eucharist from the Cardinal Archbishop, and from the Pope, which has created a scandal in the church and confusion among the faithful.
Clearly, I'm not going to convince you. Tomorrow morning, you will wake up in your bed and believe, whatever you want to believe.
The canon you cite simply says "a state of grace." It says not one word about public policy positions. NOT ONE WORD. Applying Church teachings to public policy and criminal law is a matter of prudential judgment.
That's a specious argument, Kurt, and you know it. How does a Catholic become in a state of grace? Generally by receiving absolution through confession, penance, and a firm purpose of amendment. Do we have any evidence that President Biden has performed any of these requirements?
Or do we have plentiful evidence that he remains in an obstinate state of manifest grave sin?
I don't send trackers out to the President or any other Catholic to keep up on their frequency of confession (nor should I, nor anyone). I see no evidence the President avoids the sacrament of confession. I would bet he goes to confession more often than the average Catholic, so if there are 70 million American Catholics, why don't you attack without evidence 35 million of them by name before getting to the President? Frankly I find public speculation on other people's state of grace unChristian.
The Lord promises that you can know whether a tree is good or bad based on whether the fruit is good or bad. It seems that Biden's ardent support of abortion rights (the mass murder of innocent lives) counts as a bad fruit.
So I don't really understand why your are so sure of his deep faith. I'd be glad to provide sources so that my comment isn't lobbed into those "baseless accusations."
"The Lord promises that you can know whether a tree is good or bad based on whether the fruit is good or bad."
Ahhh. Yes, let's look at the fruit. 20% decline in the number of abortions due to Obamacare. So far, no reduction in the number of abortions due to Dobbs. Look at the fruit.
The President has a fine and coherent devotion to the Blessed Sacrament.
Can you point me to Church teaching that says a politician can openly support abortion and not be in grave sin? Taking Holy Communion while in grave sin is not “coherent devotion to the Blessed Sacrament”.
Can you point me to a Church teaching that a politician can openly support divorce, adultery, masturbation, union busting, or blasphemy and not be in grave sin?
Any Catholic politician who does any of that without true repentance would be in grave sin and should not receive Holy Communion.
And nice deflection, by the way. I’ve never claimed a Catholic politician who is in grave sin is “coherent to the Blessed Sacrament”. You did that.
Any politician who commits those acts - divorce, adultery, masturbation or has an abortion -- would be in grave sin, as would any person not in public life.
So, what exactly do you mean by a "coherent devotion" to the Blessed Sacrament, Kurt? I can have a coherent devotion to the Eucharist and *still* be in a state of unworthiness to receive the sacrament - these two are not mutually exclusive. President Biden is unambiguously forbidden from receiving the Blessed Sacrament for being in an obstinate and persistent state of grave error in violation of explicit teachings. The scandal is created by the bishop offering Biden the Holy Eucharist, the sin is Biden accepting the Eucharist.
The President receives the Holy Eucharist regularly as he well should and as his spiritual superiors recommend to him. He is man of deep faith despite the baseless accusations of others.
Hang on, these are not "baseless accusations", Kurt. These are simply observations which even the President does not deny. Yes, I agree that the President should receive the Holy Eucharist, but *only* after making a perfect confession with a firm purpose of amendment, and - so far - he persists in obstinate denial of Rome's explicit directions for reception of the Eucharist. The scandal is created by the bishops who refuse to enforce this unambiguous sanction.
Your assertions are not accepted by the President nor the legitimate leaders of the Catholic Church. The President has affirmed he accepts the Church's teaching on the immorality of abortion. Popes Benedict and Francis have given him communion as has his bishop. You have a personal point of views that is particular to you.
No, these are not my assertions, Kurt. The Catechism is unambiguous on this point; now you either accept the legitimacy of the Catechism, or you don't. It sounds like you don't.
Nothing in the Catechism says any such thing. The current and previous popes, cardinals, bishops and thoughtful layperson all recognize this, hence Joe Biden has received the Eucharist from the very hands of Francis, Benedict and Wilton Gregory. I fully accept the legitimacy of the Catechism.
Kurt, the Catechism 1415 is unambiguously clear on this. If that's not clear enough for you, then read Canon 915. If that's still not clear enough for you, then read Pope Francis' own letter to the Argentine Assembly of Bishops from March 2013, specifically paragraph 436 of the Aparecida Document.
I'm not making this up, this is doctrine upheld by the Papal Magisterium. You are correct that President Biden has received the Eucharist from the Cardinal Archbishop, and from the Pope, which has created a scandal in the church and confusion among the faithful.
Clearly, I'm not going to convince you. Tomorrow morning, you will wake up in your bed and believe, whatever you want to believe.
The canon you cite simply says "a state of grace." It says not one word about public policy positions. NOT ONE WORD. Applying Church teachings to public policy and criminal law is a matter of prudential judgment.
That's a specious argument, Kurt, and you know it. How does a Catholic become in a state of grace? Generally by receiving absolution through confession, penance, and a firm purpose of amendment. Do we have any evidence that President Biden has performed any of these requirements?
Or do we have plentiful evidence that he remains in an obstinate state of manifest grave sin?
I don't send trackers out to the President or any other Catholic to keep up on their frequency of confession (nor should I, nor anyone). I see no evidence the President avoids the sacrament of confession. I would bet he goes to confession more often than the average Catholic, so if there are 70 million American Catholics, why don't you attack without evidence 35 million of them by name before getting to the President? Frankly I find public speculation on other people's state of grace unChristian.
The Lord promises that you can know whether a tree is good or bad based on whether the fruit is good or bad. It seems that Biden's ardent support of abortion rights (the mass murder of innocent lives) counts as a bad fruit.
So I don't really understand why your are so sure of his deep faith. I'd be glad to provide sources so that my comment isn't lobbed into those "baseless accusations."
"The Lord promises that you can know whether a tree is good or bad based on whether the fruit is good or bad."
Ahhh. Yes, let's look at the fruit. 20% decline in the number of abortions due to Obamacare. So far, no reduction in the number of abortions due to Dobbs. Look at the fruit.